No offence, but here is my proof that there cannot ever be..

Setanta, thats nice of you. I will keep going.



Do you mean to say that you don't agree with my point of view. If yes, pls specify which views, lets have a discussion

You assert, inferentially that there were a creation. Your argument seems to run, so far, "just look around you, how did this come into being?" I don't accept that this is a valid basis upon which to assert a creation. If you were to assert that there were a god, and that said god created the cosmos, i would ask, "Who created god?"

Precisely, that is what my contention too. if you have read my previous posts, i have said, "the source of all", is to be construed as GOD.

The law of science says that there is a source for anything that exists. If that part of science is true, then there should be some source of this galaxy or anything that exists. There should be a source to such source of glalxy and this loops to infinite. Thus it becomes absolutely clueless and an unending question. But somewhere we have to keep a fullstop to understand whatever that exists. Thus the source of all thing that exists is shouldered to something and it was given a name as God.

After such naming, the name of God has been used to regulate human beings. Various religion were formed with some underlying belief. Formalities were introduced as an effect of civilization. Few used it for their benefit. Few misused it.

I'd modify that by saying that most have misued religion. Bar none.

As for your endless loop, if god is to be identified as the prime cause, then the applicaiton of Occam's razor--entia non sunt multiplicanda--suggests that there is no need for a middleman, that the cosmos itself could be infinite with regard to time and space, and sui generis. There is no logical need for a deity.

diety are identified and created only for those illogical person. those who cannot think logically.

The desire to feel security for eternity creates all sorts of ideas, just accept the possibility that what you have now may just be the real thing and it eventually comes to an end.

Dude

WE are Gods.

Duh.

wow, i like mathos's avatar. i hope thats you...

also agree with what you said btw.

Please explain to me why believing in the American version of the Christian God (for example) requires "greet courage" and why it is "far more easier to simply deny His existence".

Please explain to me why "by debating you in fact acknowledge His existence".

Please explain to me why the question cannot be "whether He exists or not".

First of all, something needed to have initiated that energy which expanded, because something can NOT arise from nothingness (per Theory of Relativity). If this were God, it would not be necessary for something to have created him. Why? Because God created the universe along with "Time". If he exists outside of time, then that means that he can be forever existent without a cause. We cannot even begin to appreciate what "Time" really is and what it would mean to exist outside of it, but if God exists then that is how he is forever existent and doesn't need a creator.

thats not true. there is new scientific evedence proving that particles can pop into existence.

i quote david hume 'why stop at god when searching for answers?'

In your case I posit they will be busty pre op transexuals with huge cocks..... that's hell ain't it?

Oh yeah, hot nurses, thats my kind of heaven.
And race tracks of every sort, and a brand new 600HP pergeout 205. You get the idea.
People, all intelligent people know that god is not a "real" entity. I dont believe religon should be attacked so badly though. The exception being when people try to force it upon you.
The idea of god watching over and protecting us from harm is appealing to some people and I dont think they should be denied it if it makes them happy.
Besides, god would not be something so trite that he could be described by human beings with all their stupidity the disgusting things they do. He would be above and better than that. (I of course refer to "other" people).

BeeBub.
Wanna find God... quote

Ayn Rand

Chapter 11

I am. I think. I will.

My hands . . . My spirit . . . My sky . . . My forest . . . This earth of mine. . . . What must I say besides? These are the words. This is the answer.

I stand here on the summit of the mountain. I lift my head and I spread my arms. This, my body and spirit, this is the end of the quest. I wished to know the meaning of things. I am the meaning. I wished to find a warrant for being. I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction.

It is my eyes which see, and the sight of my eyes grants beauty to the earth. It is my ears which hear, and the hearing of my ears gives its song to the world. It is my mind which thinks, and the judgement of my mind is the only searchlight that can find the truth. It is my will which chooses, and the choice of my will is the only edict I must respect.

Many words have been granted me, and some are wise, and some are false, but only three are holy: "I will it!"

Whatever road I take, the guiding star is within me; the guiding star and the loadstone which point the way. They point in but one direction. They point to me.

I know not if this earth on which I stand is the core of the universe or if it is but a speck of dust lost in eternity. I know not and I care not. For I know what happiness is possible to me on earth. And my happiness needs no higher aim to vindicate it. My happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end. It is its own goal. It is its own purpose.

Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars.

I am a man. This miracle of me is mine to own and keep, and mine to guard, and mine to use, and mine to kneel before!

I do not surrender my treasures, nor do I share them. The fortune of my spirit is not to be blown into coins of brass and flung to the winds as alms for the poor of the spirit. I guard my treasures: my thought, my will, my freedom. And the greatest of these is freedom.

I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

I am neither foe nor friend to my brothers, but such as each of them shall deserve of me. And to earn my love, my brothers must do more than to have been born. I do not grant my love without reason, nor to any chance passer-by who may wish to claim it. I honor men with my love. But honor is a thing to be earned.

I shall choose friends among men, but neither slaves nor masters. And I shall choose only such as please me, and them I shall love and respect, but neither command nor obey. And we shall join our hands when we wish, or walk alone when we so desire. For in the temple of his spirit, each man is alone. Let each man keep his temple untouched and undefiled. Then let him join hands with others if he wishes, but only beyond his holy threshold.

For the word "We" must never be spoken, save by one's choice and as a second thought. This word must never be placed first within man's soul, else it becomes a monster, the root of all the evils on earth, the root of man's torture by men, and of an unspeakable lie.

The word "We" is as lime poured over men, which sets and hardens to stone, and crushes all beneath it, and that which is white and that which is black are lost equally in the grey of it. It is the word by which the depraved steal the virtue of the good, by which the weak steal the might of the strong, by which the fools steal the wisdom of the sages.

What is my joy if all hands, even the unclean, can reach into it? What is my wisdom, if even the fools can dictate to me? What is my freedom, if all creatures, even the botched and the impotent, are my masters? What is my life, if I am but to bow, to agree and to obey?

But I am done with this creed of corruption.

I am done with the monster of "We," the word of serfdom, of plunder, of misery, falsehood and shame.

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.

This god, this one word:

"I."

Alas, Ayn Rand is dead so is 'god' dead?

noavatar.
She sure is, but her idea of one's self being God, sure beats the Idea of all the other God's man has invented.

are you saying in a round-about fashion that you are a gnostic?

Queenie-

I hardly think so.
(where've ya bin?)

well i only read the first and last line of lightfoots post, im a busy woman spendy, i dont have time for mile long ramblings.

We will have to be content with short snappy soundbites then.