America... Spying on Americans

Fairy Tales can come true
it can happen to you
If your a liberal.......

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The "fairy tale" is the idea that the government has the right to invade my house or my communications without a warrant.

Why did we bother to write a constitution if it isn't the supreme law of the land?

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This is great! Turn up your volume ... Fiore says it all!!

http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/fiore/

Anon

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okie wrote:

Great! Finally somebody simply showing us whats going on in the classrooms.

Young Republican ayatollahs declaring a fatwa against the infidels.

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Let's see. Osama says he will attack us real soon.

I guess we really should not be trying to intercept any messages from potential attackers.

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Is that the same Osama that Bush promised to get "dead or alive?"

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According to the admin, they can end this war "at a time and place of [their] choosing." I can't help but wonder, why not now? Then they wouldn't "need" to eavesdrop on americans.

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Back to the 'spying'.

The Department of Justice renewed its legal defense of warrantless
domestic intelligence surveillance by the National Security
Agency in a 42 page white paper transmitted to Congress
yesterday:

"The President -- in light of the broad authority to use military
force in response to the attacks of September 11th and to
prevent further catastrophic attack expressly conferred on the
President by the Constitution and confirmed and supplemented by
Congress in the AUMF [authorization for use of military force]
-- has legal authority to authorize the NSA to conduct the
signals intelligence activities he has described. Those
activities are authorized by the Constitution and by statute,
and they violate neither FISA nor the Fourth Amendment," the
document concludes.

Department of Justice White Paper, January 19, 2006:

Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National (PDF data)

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Back to the 'spying'.

The Department of Justice renewed its legal defense of warrantless
domestic intelligence surveillance by the National Security
Agency in a 42 page white paper transmitted to Congress
yesterday:

"The President -- in light of the broad authority to use military
force in response to the attacks of September 11th and to
prevent further catastrophic attack expressly conferred on the
President by the Constitution and confirmed and supplemented by
Congress in the AUMF [authorization for use of military force]
-- has legal authority to authorize the NSA to conduct the
signals intelligence activities he has described. Those
activities are authorized by the Constitution and by statute,
and they violate neither FISA nor the Fourth Amendment," the
document concludes.

Department of Justice White Paper, January 19, 2006:

Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National (PDF data)

I couldn't agree more. The administration would not be doing their job if they weren't checking out the calls with suspected terrorist sources. The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan. Unless of course its a Democrat abusing power, then nobody will care. Thats happened already in my opinion.

By the way, remember Newt Gingrich's phone conversation that "just happened to be intercepted" in Florida by some of his political enemies. Of course it was just old Hazel and Fred or somesuch couple innocently cruising down the highway one day and happened to hear the conversation. The conversation was handed over to the Democrats in Congress to use politically. Probably some of the same Democrats complaining now about Bush trying to listen in on Al Qaida. The hypocrisy and lack of historical perspective is staggering. When they do it, its fine, when Bush does it, string him up. And of course we all know its Bush sitting at his desk all day listening in and directing who he wants to listen in on.

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okie wrote:

The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan.

How so? How would anyone know if he was doing this and who would stop him? What's to stop him from declaring that his political enemies were contacting terrorists? How would those people refute such a claim?

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FreeDuck wrote:

okie wrote:
The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan.

How so? How would anyone know if he was doing this and who would stop him? What's to stop him from declaring that his political enemies were contacting terrorists? How would those people refute such a claim?

They dont have to refute it,he has to prove it.

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mysteryman wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
okie wrote:
The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan.

How so? How would anyone know if he was doing this and who would stop him? What's to stop him from declaring that his political enemies were contacting terrorists? How would those people refute such a claim?

They dont have to refute it,he has to prove it.

Who would he have to prove it to? If the President can declare who he wants to conduct surveillence on and no court can question that claim then who does the President have to prove anything to? He can just do it and there is no one to stop him. It is secret. No one can question it. Where is the check on a President doing just this thing?

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FreeDuck wrote:

okie wrote:
The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan.

How so? How would anyone know if he was doing this and who would stop him? What's to stop him from declaring that his political enemies were contacting terrorists? How would those people refute such a claim?

You are seeing the process go on right now. This is what all this stink is about. And by the way, some of his political enemies make statements like they want the terrorists to win sometimes, so yes it makes me wonder if they need to be watched. I'm kidding. I know they aren't in cahoots with them, but they might as well be the way they hate Bush.

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LEOPOLD: Domestic Spying Before 911?
Jan 14, 2006
By Jason Leopold / t r u t h o u t

The National Security Agency advised President Bush in early 2001 that it had been eavesdropping on Americans during the course of its work monitoring suspected terrorists and foreigners believed to have ties to terrorist groups, according to a declassified document.
http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=105798&list=/home.php

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Good.

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Well, it must not have been very effective.

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okie wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
okie wrote:
The paranoids in America can relax. There are always safeguards. If for some reason some president down the road begins to abuse the power and starts intercepting calls between his political enemies, then things will hit the fan.

How so? How would anyone know if he was doing this and who would stop him? What's to stop him from declaring that his political enemies were contacting terrorists? How would those people refute such a claim?

You are seeing the process go on right now. This is what all this stink is about. And by the way, some of his political enemies make statements like they want the terrorists to win sometimes, so yes it makes me wonder if they need to be watched. I'm kidding. I know they aren't in cahoots with them, but they might as well be the way they hate Bush.

I'm seeing this process now? According to the president, he doesn't have to tell anyone anything and he has the inherent right to spy on anyone he wants to. The questions remain: who would stop him? what's to stop him from spying on his enemies?

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FreeDuck wrote:

I'm seeing this process now? According to the president, he doesn't have to tell anyone anything and he has the inherent right to spy on anyone he wants to. The questions remain: who would stop him? what's to stop him from spying on his enemies?

Not anyone he wants to. Who would stop him? Answer: people involved with the programs, congressional oversight, whistle blowers in tandem with the opposing political party, and hopefully his or her own party, the press, public opinion, etc. Our system has never been perfect, obviously. Who stopped FDR from rounding up tens or hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans and others into camps during WWII for no legitimate reason? Answer is nobody. On a scale of 100, FDR's actions would rank maybe a 90, whereas this stink ranks about a 3 in my opinion. I think with increased media communications, there is alot more chance of preventing such a scenario now. So I don't see things spinning out of control on this issue at all. We need to understand the scope of the threat involved, the possibility of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. The stakes are extremely high and there is not much room for error. We cannot afford to allow free and open communication by terrorists to go unmonitored. That is absolutely stupid and impractical. I do not think following FISA to the letter is an adequate solution in time of war. All the more reason we need a moral society to elect moral people to have the best interest of their country at heart. Without that, there is no law that will prevent abuse.

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When I read the thoughts of cowards who would sacrifice our freedom and way of life out of fear of "terrorists," I just want to puke.

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Be my guest. Sometimes I wonder if some of you people are capable of grasping the concept of reality. The world is dangerous and there are in fact people out there working 24 hours a day to kill you and me.

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America... Spying on Americans

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