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America... Spying on Americans

 
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:15 am


Based upon this hog-wash, your postings have now become irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:28 am
squinney wrote:
When a President tells you it would be easier if it were a dictatorship...


It appears you are having difficulty seeing the difference between "A dictatorship would be a lot easier" and "I wish this were a dictatorship."

Sure, believe the President when he says that. After all, it's probably a true statement. But it's also true that he was joking when he said it .... each time.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:46 am
To repeat an old trite saying, "plenty of truth was said in jest."
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:49 am
How is it you can believe the president is serious about a joking cooment like this, but refuse to believe him when he makes a serious comment about who is being wiretapped and why.

It seems to be a flaw in the liberal mind. It certainly explains a lot though.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:52 am
because both statements no matter the delivery, give a great insight into what a shallow useless piece of **** he is. Of course, that's just my opinion.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:54 am
McGentrix wrote:
How is it you can believe the president is serious about a joking cooment like this, but refuse to believe him when he makes a serious comment about who is being wiretapped and why.

It seems to be a flaw in the liberal mind. It certainly explains a lot though.


It's not a "liberal" thing.

It pure emotion. Hatred, jelousy, is the basis of their conclusions.

"I hate Bush so therefore anything he does is wrong"

You can not debate an issue, when emotion is the primary focus of one of the parties.

For example, EVERYONE loved JFK (the last real democrat). So when JFK wiretapped the KKK and organized crime, that was a good thing.

When GW "wiretapps" known terrorists and sympothizors in the name of defense, it is a bad thing.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 08:20 am
squinney wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Is it more idiotic to believe comments made in jest?


When someone tells you what they are, no matter the delivery method, believe them.

When a boyfriend jokingly says "I'm a cheapskate," he's telling you what he is. Don't marry him and then wonder why he won't spend a penny to take you out to dinner any more.

When a woman tells you "I'm a real B!tch sometimes," believe her. Even if she says it in retreat from a confrontation to try to smooth things over, she is telling you who she is.

When a President tells you it would be easier if it were a dictatorship...
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 08:26 am
McGentrix wrote:
Is it more idiotic to believe comments made in jest?

"The truth is often said in jest."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 08:30 am
DrewDad wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Is it more idiotic to believe comments made in jest?

"The truth is often said in jest."


So are jokes.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 08:37 am
Ticomaya wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Is it more idiotic to believe comments made in jest?

"The truth is often said in jest."


So are jokes.

Take my conservative opponents.... Please!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 09:34 am

Why oh why are so many Americans unable to talk politics without comparing their respective adversaries to Hitler? Can't a politician be evil without rising to the level of someone who murdered millions of people? Whether the adversary in question is Franklin D. Roosevelt or George W. Bush, the only thing these comparisons prove is an appalling failure of the comparer to understand Hitler, or the adversary, or both. I would mention that they also prove a severe lack of taste, but we all know how little of a deterrent that is in a political thread. <sigh>
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 09:39 am
Well, I would just like it to be noted that I have never compared Bush to Hitler...
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 09:45 am
McGentrix wrote:
Well, I would just like it to be noted that I have never compared Bush to Hitler...


Bush is taller than Hitler. That's a fair comparison, is it not?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 09:48 am
More like a contrast, really.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 09:56 am
In the weeks following the Sept. 11 attacks, the National Security Agency expanded its domestic surveillance program without formal authorization from President Bush, documents released Tuesday revealed.

According to an October 2001 letter released by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, after being briefed with other members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees Pelosi expressed concern to Lt. Gen. Michael Hayden, then director of the NSA, over the agency's legal authority to conduct expanded domestic eavesdropping to identify terror suspects in the US.

Quote:
October 11, 2001

Lieutenant General Michael V. Hayden, USAF
Director
National Security Agency
Fort George G. Mead, Maryland 20755
Washington, D.C. 20340-1001

Dear General Hayden:

During your appearance before the committee on October 1, you indicated that you had been operating since the September 11 attacks with an expansive view of your authorities with respect to the conduct of electronic surveillance under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and related statutes, orders, regulations, and guidelines. You seemed to be inviting expressions of concern from us, if there were any, and, after the briefing was over and I had a chance to reflect on what you said, I instructed staff to get more information on this matter for me. For several reasons, including what I consider to be an overly broad interpretation of President Bush's directive of October 5 on sharing with Congress "classified or sensitive law enforcement information" it has not been possible to get answers to my questions.

Without those answers, the concerns I have about what you said on the 1st can not be resolved, and I wanted to bring them to your attention directly. You indicated that you were treating as a matter of first impression, [redacted ] being of foreign intelligence interest. As a result, you were forwarding the intercepts, and any information [redacted ] without first receiving a request for that identifying information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Although I may be persuaded by the strength of your analysis [redacted ] I believe you have a much more difficult case to make [redacted ] Therefore, I am concerned whether, and to what extent, the National Security Agency has received specific presidential authorization for the operations you are conducting. Until I understand better the legal analysis regarding the sufficiency of the authority which underlies your decision on the appropriate way to proceed on this matter, I will continue to be concerned.

Sincerely,

NANCY PELOSI
Ranking Democrat

Source


Hayden replied that in the briefing he had been "attempting to emphasize that I used my authorities to adjust NSA's collection and reporting".


The NSA further expanded its domestic surveillance under a 2002 executive order that specifically authorized the wiretapping of international communications that originated within the US by people believed to be connected to al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations:

Files Say Agency Initiated Growth of Spying Effort
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 10:00 am
McGentrix wrote:
How is it you can believe the president is serious about a joking cooment like this, but refuse to believe him when he makes a serious comment about who is being wiretapped and why.

It seems to be a flaw in the liberal mind. It certainly explains a lot though.


Just about everyone is being a bit dull here, I think.

The three instances of Bush speaking of the projected ease of administering by dictate compared to that task in a constitutional democracy (with all attending checks) does not tell us anything at all about whether he has moved in that direction or would really want to.

What it does point out is the temptation for a President (or Prime Minister, Defence Minister, etc) to think that way because of the frustration that arises from a system of checks and balances.

That's really all we can glean from the three statements.

Unfortunately, there is rather a lot more we know now about this administration and the clear dangers arising from this administration's attempts to remove checks and balances and to accrete power to itself is evident to anyone but apologists.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 10:04 am
One thing we know for sure is that this administration will not be in power as it is come 2009.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 10:06 am
That's true. But they might be setting the precedent for consolidated presidential power for a future president with even fewer scruples.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 10:17 am
That will be up to the electorate to vote in who they feel is the best qualified.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 10:42 am
The NYT book prompting the article is being released; here's an excerpt:

Quote:
In order to overturn the system established by FISA in 1978, and bring the NSA back into domestic wiretaps without court approval, administration lawyers have issued a series of secret legal opinions, similar to those written in support of the harsh interrogation tactics used on detainees captured in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush administration legal opinions that supported the use of harsh interrogation techniques on al Qaeda detainees have, of course, proven controversial, drawing complaints from allies, objections from civil liberties advocates, and court challenges. The administration faced its first serious legal rebuke in June 2004 when the U.S. Supreme Court rejected the administration's effort to hold "enemy combatants" without a hearing. The court warned that "a state of war is not a blank check for the president." The same could be said about the Program. Yet the NSA domestic spying operation has remained secret, and so the legal opinions and other documents related to the NSA program are still classified. The administration apparently has several legal opinions to support the NSA operation, written by lawyers at the White House, the CIA, the NSA, and the Justice Department. They all rely heavily on a broad interpretation of Article Two of the Constitution, which grants power to the president as commander in chief of the armed forces. Relying largely on those constitutional powers, Congress passed a resolution just days after the September 11 attacks granting the president the authority to wage a global war on terrorism, and Bush administration lawyers later decided that the war resolution provided the legal basis they needed to support the NSA operation to eavesdrop on American citizens.


http://cryptome.org/nsa-program.htm

It will be interesting to ask each senator: is this the power you intended the presdient to have? To spy on the American people at will, with no oversight, because we are in the War on Terror(tm)?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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