9
   

America... Spying on Americans

 
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 08:40 pm
And as far as the Clinton / Public Housing searches...

Quote:
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:59:09 -0700

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate agrees with a Clinton
administration plan to conduct warrantless searches for illegal
guns and drugs in public housing projects.

Such searches, known as sweeps, were declared unconstitutional two weeks ago by a federal judge in Chicago who said they violated tenants' Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

On Saturday, President Clinton announced a new plan to make
housing projects safer, which includes encouraging tenants to sign leases consenting in advance to surprise weapons searches, much as a standard lease allows maintenance inspections.

The new policy permits sweeps in common areas such as lobbies and in vacant apartments, as well as apartments where people have given permission, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros said Friday on NBC.
Cisneros said that people who do not give their permission would not be denied public housing, but noted that in Chicago, ``most people are consenting because they want their buildings to be clean.''

The Constitution provides the right to be protected from
searches but, Cisneros added, ``people have a right to be safe, to see their children go to school safely. ...''

A non-binding resolution, offered by Senate Republican leader Bob Dole of Kansas and adopted by voice vote Thursday, endorsed the policy. A condition, proposed by Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., was added saying tenants couldn't be denied housing for refusing to agree to a search clause in their lease.

However, Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., chairman of the Senate
Judiciary Committee, warned that even that might be rejected on constitutional grounds because any waiver of constitutional rights must be freely given.



See the difference?

The Chicago Housing Authority started it, not the president.

The searches are NOT done in secret, nor are they done without consent of the tenant, and the tenant can't be denied housing if they don't sign the agreement.

The legislative branch actually discussed it, rather than the executive doing it uniilaterally in secret.

The opposition party actually introduced the resolution, rather than being slightly, somewhat kinda briefed on it.

And, a main player in the presidents party (Biden) questioned its constitutionality rather than claiming the president could do what he wanted.

So, stop claiming Clinton did warrantless searches in public housing. It isn't true.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 10:22 pm
squinney wrote:
And as far as the Clinton / Public Housing searches...

Quote:
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:59:09 -0700

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate agrees with a Clinton
administration plan to conduct warrantless searches for illegal
guns and drugs in public housing projects.

Such searches, known as sweeps, were declared unconstitutional two weeks ago by a federal judge in Chicago who said they violated tenants' Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

On Saturday, President Clinton announced a new plan to make
housing projects safer, which includes encouraging tenants to sign leases consenting in advance to surprise weapons searches, much as a standard lease allows maintenance inspections.

The new policy permits sweeps in common areas such as lobbies and in vacant apartments, as well as apartments where people have given permission, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros said Friday on NBC.
Cisneros said that people who do not give their permission would not be denied public housing, but noted that in Chicago, ``most people are consenting because they want their buildings to be clean.''

The Constitution provides the right to be protected from
searches but, Cisneros added, ``people have a right to be safe, to see their children go to school safely. ...''

A non-binding resolution, offered by Senate Republican leader Bob Dole of Kansas and adopted by voice vote Thursday, endorsed the policy. A condition, proposed by Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., was added saying tenants couldn't be denied housing for refusing to agree to a search clause in their lease.

However, Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., chairman of the Senate
Judiciary Committee, warned that even that might be rejected on constitutional grounds because any waiver of constitutional rights must be freely given.



See the difference?

The Chicago Housing Authority started it, not the president.

The searches are NOT done in secret, nor are they done without consent of the tenant, and the tenant can't be denied housing if they don't sign the agreement.

The legislative branch actually discussed it, rather than the executive doing it uniilaterally in secret.

The opposition party actually introduced the resolution, rather than being slightly, somewhat kinda briefed on it.

And, a main player in the presidents party (Biden) questioned its constitutionality rather than claiming the president could do what he wanted.

So, stop claiming Clinton did warrantless searches in public housing. It isn't true.


No, the Chicago Housing Authority did not start it ... the Clinton Administration did.

And unless you can do a better job of explaining how Clinton did NOT do warrantless searches in public housing, it certainly appears he did -- at least until they were declared unconstitutional by the court.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 10:27 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Of course there are limits. The surveillance must be on foreign powers, or agents thereof, for foreign intelligence purposes.



After the Supreme Court decided United States v. United States District Court in which the Court stated "the instant case requires no judgment on the scope of the President's surveillance power with respect to the activities of foreign powers, within or without this country," CONGRESS enacted the FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.

Even if we (the PEOPLE of the United States) assume that the President had inherent constitutional power to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information, Congress has chosen to regulate that power. We (the PEOPLE) KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT constitutional power to make rules for government. We KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT power to enact laws to regulate the manner in which the PRESIDENT may execute his constitutional powers.

FISA does not strip the President of power to conduct warrantless surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence information. FISA establishes RULES--checks and balances--for the president to follow to ensure that the president does not abuse his power.

Because CONGRESS has spoken on the issue of electronic surveillance through a congressional enactment, the president is required to faithfully execute the law. The president does not have inherent authority to disregard congressional enactments at his pleasure. His decision to bypass FISA in favor of ordering his own secret domestic spying program to thwart accountability and to evade congressional and judicial oversight violates both the Constitution and FISA. He has committed a federal crime. See 50 U.S.C. § 1809.


"We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power." -- In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)



(That response answers kuvasz' last post as well.)
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 02:49 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Of course there are limits. The surveillance must be on foreign powers, or agents thereof, for foreign intelligence purposes.



After the Supreme Court decided United States v. United States District Court in which the Court stated "the instant case requires no judgment on the scope of the President's surveillance power with respect to the activities of foreign powers, within or without this country," CONGRESS enacted the FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.

Even if we (the PEOPLE of the United States) assume that the President had inherent constitutional power to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information, Congress has chosen to regulate that power. We (the PEOPLE) KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT constitutional power to make rules for government. We KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT power to enact laws to regulate the manner in which the PRESIDENT may execute his constitutional powers.

FISA does not strip the President of power to conduct warrantless surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence information. FISA establishes RULES--checks and balances--for the president to follow to ensure that the president does not abuse his power.

Because CONGRESS has spoken on the issue of electronic surveillance through a congressional enactment, the president is required to faithfully execute the law. The president does not have inherent authority to disregard congressional enactments at his pleasure. His decision to bypass FISA in favor of ordering his own secret domestic spying program to thwart accountability and to evade congressional and judicial oversight violates both the Constitution and FISA. He has committed a federal crime. See 50 U.S.C. § 1809.


"We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power." -- In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)



(That response answers kuvasz' last post as well.)




The President is NOT above the law. See, e.g., UNITED STATES v. NIXON, 418 U.S. 683 (1974).
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 02:54 am
"The President wants me to argue that he is as powerful a monarch as Louis XIV, only four years at a time, and is not subject to the processes of any court in the land except the court of impeachment." — James D. St. Clair, Richard Nixon's counsel, arguing before the Supreme Court
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 03:06 am
Debra L A W is certainly aware that there are proponents on both sides of the question about "permissible" and "impermissible" wire tapping. I quoted Professor Cass Sunstein recently since he felt that the President had powers granted by the Congressional Authorization to go to war which trumped the Statute, however, I also pointed out that the question will not be settled by Ivory Tower types. I predict that the furor will die down rather quickly. The politicians, who hold no higher value than getting re-elected, will react immediately to public opinion, especially in cases where the substance is not well understood and there is a wide divergence of opinion.

Why will the furor die down?

The Rasmussen Report says that a huge 64% of the American Populace polled say that the President should be able to intercept phone conversations between terrorist suspects in other countries and people living in the USA.

23% say that the President should not have this power.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 04:28 am
MSNBC POLL

Quote:
Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?

* 176337 responses


Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
86%

No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
4%

No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
8%

I don't know.
2%
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 06:15 am
IMPEACHMENT

The I-Word is Gaining Ground

Quote:
The I-word has moved from the marginal to the mainstream — although columnists like Charles "torture-is-fine-by-me" Krauthammer would like us to believe that "only the most brazen and reckless and partisan" could support the idea. In fact, as Michelle Goldberg reports in Salon, "in the past few days, impeachment "has become a topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars and experts (including a few Republicans), former intelligence officers, and even a few politicians." Even a moderately liberal columnist like Newsweek's Alter sounds like The Nation, observing: "We're seeing clearly now that Bush thought 9/11 gave him license to act like a dictator."



Gosh! Can't a boy pursue his dreams? Bush has always wanted to be a dictator:

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier."--George W. Bush describing what it's like to be governor of Texas, Governing Magazine, July 1998

"I told all four [congressmen] that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."--George W. Bush, December 18, 2000

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."-- George W. Bush, Business Week, July 30, 2001


Another article excerpt:

Quote:
Public opinion is also growing more comfortable with the idea of impeaching this president. A Zogby International poll conducted this summer found that 42 percent of Americans felt that impeaching Bush would be justified if it was shown that he had manipulated intelligence in going to war in Iraq. (John Zogby admitted that "it was much higher than I expected.") By November, the number of those who favored impeaching Bush stood at 53 percent — if it was in fact proven that Bush had lied about the basis for invading Iraq. (And these polls were taken before the revelations of Bush's domestic spying.)

Former Nixon White House counsel John Dean argued in his aptly-named book "Worse than Watergate" that Bush's false statements about WMDs in Iraq — used to drum up support for an invasion — deceived the American people and Congress. This constituted "an impeachable offense," Dean told PBS' Bill Moyers in 2004. "I think the case is overwhelming that these people presented false information to the Congress and to the American people." Bush's actions were actually far worse than Watergate, Dean contends, because "no one died for Nixon's so-called Watergate abuses."

Lending credence to Dean's arguments, the Downing Street Memo revealed that Britain's MI-6 Director Richard Dearlove had told Tony Blair that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" by the Bush Administration. John Bonifaz, a Boston-based attorney and constitutional law expert, said that Bush seemingly "concealed important intelligence which he ought to have communicated," and "must certainly be punished for giving false information to the Senate." Bush deceived "the American people as to the basis for taking the nation into war against Iraq," Bonifaz argued — an impeachable offense.


Rep. John Conyers argued as well that the president committed impeachable offenses" because he and senior administration officials "countenanced torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in Iraq" at Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere, including Guantanamo Bay and the now-notorious "black sites" around the world.


The most compelling evidence of Bush's high crimes and misdemeanors is the revelation that he repeatedly authorized NSA spying on U.S. citizens without obtaining the required warrants from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court. Constitutional experts, politicians and ex-intelligence experts agree that Bush "committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans." Rep. John Lewis &3151 "the first major House figure to suggest impeaching Bush," said the AP — argued that the president "deliberately, systematically violated the law" in authorizing the wiretapping. Lewis added: "He is not King, he is president."

Meanwhile, Professor Jonathan Turley of George Washington University School of Law — a specialist in surveillance law — told Knight Ridder that Bush's actions "violated federal law" and raised "serious constitutional questions of high crimes and misdemeanors." It is worth remembering that an abuse of power similar to Bush's NSA wiretapping decision was part of the impeachment charge brought against Richard Nixon in 1974. [This comparison was brought home in the ACLU's powerful full page ad in the NYT of December 22nd.]

There are many reasons why it is crucial that the Democrats regain control of Congress in '06, but consider this one: If they do, there may be articles of impeachment introduced and the estimable John Conyers, who has led the fight to defend our constitution, would become Chair of the House Judiciary Committee. Wouldn't that be a truly just response to the real high crimes and misdemeanors that this lawbreaking president has so clearly committed?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 06:56 am
The parts ignored by Tico in In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)

Quote:
the court found that the
government had shown probable
cause to believe that the target is an agent of a foreign power and otherwise met the basic requirements of FISA. The government's application for a surveillance order contains detailed information to support its contention that the target, who
is a United States person, is aiding, abetting, or conspiring with others in international
terrorism.

Quote:
In approving the district court's exclusion of evidence obtained through a warrantless surveillance subsequent to the point in time when the government's investigation became "primarily" driven by law enforcement objectives, the court held that the Executive Branch
should be excused from securing a warrant only when



And most importantly is the CONCLUSION in the document that Tico seems to want to pull one sentence out of..

Quote:
We, therefore, believe firmly, applying the balancing test
drawn from Keith, that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it
authorizes are reasonable.

Note, they only rule on FISA as WRITTEN. They don't rule on the constitutionality of warrantless survellience in general. They do state this however.
Quote:
The Supreme Court's special needs
cases involve random stops (seizures) not electronic searches. In one sense, they can be thought of as a greater encroachment into personal privacy because they are not based on any particular suspicion. On the other hand, wiretapping is a good deal more intrusive than an
automobile stop accompanied by questioning
.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 07:29 am
Debra_Law wrote:
IMPEACHMENT

The I-Word is Gaining Ground

Quote:
We're seeing clearly now that Bush thought 9/11 gave him license to act like a dictator."



Gosh! Can't a boy pursue his dreams? Bush has always wanted to be a dictator:

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier."--George W. Bush describing what it's like to be governor of Texas, Governing Magazine, July 1998

"I told all four [congressmen] that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."--George W. Bush, December 18, 2000

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."-- George W. Bush, Business Week, July 30, 2001


Another article excerpt:

Quote:


Your argument has now turned toward the IDIOTIC and ABSURD.

Instead of addressing the real issue of HOW CAN A PRESIDENT EXECUTE ACTIONS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE SECURITY OF THIS NATION, you jump right to impeachment.

A President MUST, during a time of war, have the ability to do the things GW has done and should continue to do relative to foreign intel gathering on US soil.

Yet, it is apparent you do not care about that. You only care about finding SOMETHING, ANYTHING to remove GW from office due to your illogical emotion of hatred.

If you are an attorney, you should be ashamed of yourself and you are an embarrasement to the Bar.

You know darn well, that something might be wrong with the system, yet you blame GW and ignore the system.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 07:53 am
I'm sure this will make your day.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/28/lawyers.spying/index.html

" Defense attorneys for several terror suspects prosecuted by the Justice Department said Wednesday they plan to file court motions questioning the legality of a National Security Agency surveillance project."

"The lawyers representing Iyman Faris and Ali al-Timimi, who are both serving time for terror-related convictions, said they plan to ask a federal court to force the Justice Department to hand over information about whether the NSA surveillance was used in their cases"

What they fail to point out is :
1. Faris pleaded guilty, so the issue is moot.
2. Any surviellance, and any information obtained must be relavant to the case.

I'll bet the terrorists are laughing their collective arses off at the way some of you seem to support their efforts to communicate freely into the US.

I'll wager you would support a decision by the USSC that would provide non-US citizens being tried by Military Tribunals to be afforded all the rights of a US citizen.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 08:55 am
woiyo - most here are part of that 26% that believe President Bush is the first to authorize a program like the one currently in the news (48% do not).

They're also, I'd guess, in alignment with people like Spielberg and Kushner who believe that the terrorists only require a little "love and understanding".

Sooner or later the Dem party leaders are going to have to take a side on this issue - much as they were forced to show their hand in troop withdrawal (403-3!).

Regardless of party, we in the reality-based community know which side handles the security issues of this country more efficiently. Just as in '04, we'll vote accordingly Smile
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 09:01 am
woiyo

That consequence was predictable. Likely the blame for it doesn't lay at the feet of a2k members.

The lawyers will, of course, use whatever legal tools are available to defend their clients - that's the way one end of the judicial system works.

The prosecution (the administration) has now left themselves open to this particular legal challenge because they MAY have violated a law in the collection of evidence (a complicated question that will have to be worked out).
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 10:52 am
woiyo wrote:
I'll bet the terrorists are laughing their collective arses off at the way some of you seem to support their efforts to communicate freely into the US.

Your concern for the terrorists' arses warms my heart, as befits Christmas season. Unfortunately, my own concern for these unfortunate body parts certainly is much more modest. It would definitely not override my concern for the US constitution being upheld rather than being rewritten by activist conservative judges, nor would it outweigh my concern for US law being followed by the US president.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:10 am
activist conservative judges? Like who?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:20 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Of course there are limits. The surveillance must be on foreign powers, or agents thereof, for foreign intelligence purposes.



After the Supreme Court decided United States v. United States District Court in which the Court stated "the instant case requires no judgment on the scope of the President's surveillance power with respect to the activities of foreign powers, within or without this country," CONGRESS enacted the FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.

Even if we (the PEOPLE of the United States) assume that the President had inherent constitutional power to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information, Congress has chosen to regulate that power. We (the PEOPLE) KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT constitutional power to make rules for government. We KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT power to enact laws to regulate the manner in which the PRESIDENT may execute his constitutional powers.

FISA does not strip the President of power to conduct warrantless surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence information. FISA establishes RULES--checks and balances--for the president to follow to ensure that the president does not abuse his power.

Because CONGRESS has spoken on the issue of electronic surveillance through a congressional enactment, the president is required to faithfully execute the law. The president does not have inherent authority to disregard congressional enactments at his pleasure. His decision to bypass FISA in favor of ordering his own secret domestic spying program to thwart accountability and to evade congressional and judicial oversight violates both the Constitution and FISA. He has committed a federal crime. See 50 U.S.C. § 1809.


"We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power." -- In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)



(That response answers kuvasz' last post as well.)




The President is NOT above the law. See, e.g., UNITED STATES v. NIXON, 418 U.S. 683 (1974).




"We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power." -- In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:22 am
Debra_Law wrote:
MSNBC POLL

Quote:
Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?

* 176337 responses


Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
86%

No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
4%

No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
8%

I don't know.
2%


MSNBC?

That's a ridiculous poll. I can't believe you would post it. ("... between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war ...")

The folks voting there like Keith Olbermann, and consider him a good journalist. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:25 am
parados wrote:
The parts ignored by Tico in In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)

Quote:
the court found that the
government had shown probable
cause to believe that the target is an agent of a foreign power and otherwise met the basic requirements of FISA. The government's application for a surveillance order contains detailed information to support its contention that the target, who
is a United States person, is aiding, abetting, or conspiring with others in international
terrorism.

Quote:
In approving the district court's exclusion of evidence obtained through a warrantless surveillance subsequent to the point in time when the government's investigation became "primarily" driven by law enforcement objectives, the court held that the Executive Branch
should be excused from securing a warrant only when



And most importantly is the CONCLUSION in the document that Tico seems to want to pull one sentence out of..

Quote:
We, therefore, believe firmly, applying the balancing test
drawn from Keith, that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it
authorizes are reasonable.

Note, they only rule on FISA as WRITTEN. They don't rule on the constitutionality of warrantless survellience in general. They do state this however.
Quote:
The Supreme Court's special needs
cases involve random stops (seizures) not electronic searches. In one sense, they can be thought of as a greater encroachment into personal privacy because they are not based on any particular suspicion. On the other hand, wiretapping is a good deal more intrusive than an
automobile stop accompanied by questioning
.


Show me where I've ignored those parts of the opinion.

Why are you ignoring this part:

Quote:
"We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power." -- In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001 (FISC Court of Review, 2002)
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:31 am
Thomas wrote:
woiyo wrote:
I'll bet the terrorists are laughing their collective arses off at the way some of you seem to support their efforts to communicate freely into the US.

Your concern for the terrorists' arses warms my heart, as befits Christmas season. Unfortunately, my own concern for these unfortunate body parts certainly is much more modest. It would definitely not override my concern for the US constitution being upheld rather than being rewritten by activist conservative judges, nor would it outweigh my concern for US law being followed by the US president.


It has not been determined that any law has been broken.

You avoid the main issue of giving a US President the authority to gather foreign inteliigence on US Soil and spout your concern about the Consititution.

You show your location as Germany. Are you a US Citizen?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:37 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Even if we (the PEOPLE of the United States) assume that the President had inherent constitutional power to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information, Congress has chosen to regulate that power. We (the PEOPLE) KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT constitutional power to make rules for government. We KNOW that Congress has EXPLICIT power to enact laws to regulate the manner in which the PRESIDENT may execute his constitutional powers.

Let me add an observation from an originalist point of view. I looked up that clause in "The Founder's Constitution", a reference book that seeks to illuminate the founding-era understanding of its language. (Link here.) I could not find a single founding-era reference restricting Congress's power to regulate the executive's conduct of the war. But I did find a reference to Joseph Story's discussion of that power in hisCommentaries . It makes it very clear that Congress's ability to restrain the executive's war-making power is a deliberate feature of the constitution, not a bug in it.

Joseph Story wrote:
In Great Britain, the king, in his capacity of generalissimo of the whole kingdom, has the sole power of regulating fleets and armies. But parliament has repeatedly interposed; and the regulation of both is now in a considerable measure provided for by acts of parliament. The whole power is far more safe in the hands of congress, than of the executive; since otherwise the most summary and severe punishments might be inflicted at the mere will of the executive.

The "Commander in Chief" section of "The Founder's Constitution" (link here) points to even more founding era documents. They explicitly acknowledge the dangers to a free country that would arise if the president, as commander in chief, had unrestrained power. Here again, early legal commentators explicitly refer to the powers of Congress to regulate and restrain the president. As founding-era interpretations of the constitution clearly show, the need to counterbalance effective war-making with the protection of a free society runs as a continuous thread throughout your early constitutional history. Nothing fundamental about President Bush's claims is new in this regard.

As every reader can confirm with a Google search, you and I, Debra, have had many disagreements about originalism. I know you don't have too much respect for my approach to reading the constitution. Therefore I find it important to point out that in this case, your approach and mine seem perfectly compatible. The legal activists in this case are the conservatives, who want courts to re-write the constitution rather than applying it. Even worse, they want the president to secretly re-write it, too. Please, Debra, accept my apologies for the severe lack of principle that my fellow originalists are showing in this thread. I am sure they will eventually come to their senses.
0 Replies
 
 

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