9
   

America... Spying on Americans

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 12:01 pm
For those of you that have followed all of this closely, perhaps I've missed the discussion of it, but how does the "Able Danger" program fit into all of this?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 02:04 pm
Thomas wrote:
Because she was stringing together platitude after platitude, and could only avoid losing the debate by obstructing him as he tried to finish his sentences. But it's not a point I'm interested in dwelling on.

...


Interesting, because I thought she was the only one of the two making solid points. She pointed out case law supporting her position and made an argument, while all he did was state his opinion. So in terms of a debate between the two, she mopped him up.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 07:36 am
Quote:
Gonzales Seeks to Clarify Testimony on Spying
Extent of Eavesdropping May Go Beyond NSA Work

By Charles Babington and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, March 1, 2006; A08



Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales appeared to suggest yesterday that the Bush administration's warrantless domestic surveillance operations may extend beyond the outlines that the president acknowledged in mid-December.

In a letter yesterday to senators in which he asked to clarify his Feb. 6 testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Gonzales also seemed to imply that the administration's original legal justification for the program was not as clear-cut as he indicated three weeks ago.

At that appearance, Gonzales confined his comments to the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping program, saying that President Bush had authorized it "and that is all that he has authorized."

But in yesterday's letter, Gonzales, citing that quote, wrote: "I did not and could not address . . . any other classified intelligence activities." Using the administration's term for the recently disclosed operation, he continued, "I was confining my remarks to the Terrorist Surveillance Program as described by the President, the legality of which was the subject" of the Feb. 6 hearing.

At least one constitutional scholar who testified before the committee yesterday said in an interview that Gonzales appeared to be hinting that the operation disclosed by the New York Times in mid-December is not the full extent of eavesdropping on U.S. residents conducted without court warrants.

"It seems to me he is conceding that there are other NSA surveillance programs ongoing that the president hasn't told anyone about," said Bruce Fein, a government lawyer in the Nixon, Carter and Reagan administrations.

A Justice Department official who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the program, said, however, that Gonzales's letter "should not be taken or construed to be talking about anything other than" the NSA program "as described by the president."

In his letter, Gonzales revisited earlier testimony, during which he said the administration immediately viewed a congressional vote in September 2001 to authorize the use of military force against al-Qaeda as justification for the NSA surveillance program. Bush secretly began the program in October 2001, Gonzales's letter said.

On Feb. 6, Gonzales testified that the Justice Department considered the use-of-force vote as a legal green light for the wiretapping "before the program actually commenced."

But in yesterday's letter, he wrote, "these statements may give the misimpression that the Department's legal analysis has been static over time."

Fein said the letter seems to suggest that the Justice Department actually embraced the use-of-force argument some time later, prompting Gonzales to write that the legal justification "has evolved over time."

One government source who has been briefed on the issue confirmed yesterday that the administration believed from the beginning that the president had the constitutional authority to order the eavesdropping, and only more recently added the force resolution argument as a legal justification.

Ranking Judiciary Committee Democrat Patrick J. Leahy (Vt.) said Gonzales's letter falls "far short of helping us focus this picture. Instead, they blur it further with vague responses about their shifting legal analysis for this illegal domestic spying and with unclear clarifications on the scope of the program over the last four years."

Also yesterday, the Senate voted 69 to 30 to end a filibuster of the proposed four-year extension of the USA Patriot Act, the sweeping anti-terrorism law enacted in 2001. The Senate plans today to approve the measure, which contains hotly debated modifications.

In a morning Judiciary Committee hearing, hours before Gonzales's letter was released, Fein was one of several constitutional experts who sharply challenged the constitutionality of the NSA program. Other scholars and former CIA director R. James Woolsey strongly defended it.

Bush has acknowledged that he authorized the NSA to monitor phone calls and e-mails involving one party in the United States and one abroad, provided that federal agents suspect one party of terrorist ties. The administration contends that the program is not covered by the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which established a secret court to consider government requests to wiretap U.S. citizens and residents in terrorism and espionage cases.

Numerous lawmakers, including Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), disagree. Specter says the NSA program violates the FISA law, and he is proposing legislation that would allow the FISA court to rule on the program's constitutionality and to oversee aspects of the surveillance operations.

Woolsey, President Bill Clinton's first CIA director, defended the eavesdropping program.

"The one-spy-at-a-time surveillance systems of the Cold War -- including FISA, through courts -- are not designed to deal with fast-moving battlefield electronic mapping" of today's terrorism fight, he said. "An al-Qaeda or a Hezbollah computer might be captured which contains a large number of e-mail addresses and phone numbers which would have to be checked out very promptly," he said, and the FISA warrant process is too cumbersome to allow it.


source
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 10:52 am
Interesting.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 11:10 am
White House Rejects Special Counsel
White House Rejects Special Counsel
By Katherine Shrader
The Associated Press
Tuesday 28 February 2006

The White House on Monday rejected the call by more than a dozen House Democrats for a special counsel to investigate the Bush administration's eavesdropping program.

President Bush's spokesman Scott McClellan said those Democrats should instead spend their time investigating the source of the unauthorized disclosure of the classified program, which "has given the enemy some of our playbook."

"I really don't think there's any basis for a special counsel," McClellan also said.

In a letter released Monday, 18 House Democrats told Bush that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales should appoint a special counsel. They said the surveillance of terrorists must be done within the bounds of U.S. law, but complained that their efforts to get answers to legal and factual questions about the program have been stymied - "generally based on the feeblest of excuses."

"If the effort to prevent vigorous and appropriate investigation succeeds, we fear the inexorable conclusion will be that these executive branch agencies hold themselves above the law and accountable to no one," wrote the lawmakers, led by Rep. Zoe Lofgren (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., a member of the Judiciary and Homeland Security committees.

The lawmakers initially asked the independent watchdogs at the Justice and Defense departments to open inquiries. Both declined.

Justice's inspector general Glenn Fine said he lacked authority, and deferred to the department's Office of Professional Responsibility. That office has said it is investigating the conduct of the department's lawyers, but not the program's lawfulness.

Congress' investigative arm, the General Accountability Office, similarly declined to open a review, noting the administration would be expected to designate the necessary documents as foreign intelligence materials and limit access to them.

The Democrats see "ample precedent" for a special counsel, citing the Justice Department's appointment of U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald to investigate the leak of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame.

After 22 months of investigation, Fitzgerald indicted the vice president's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, for allegedly lying about his role in the disclosure.

"Indeed, the allegation of a secret NSA spying program conducting warrantless domestic surveillance of U.S. persons is at least as serious" as the matter Fitzgerald investigated, the Democrats wrote.

In their six-page letter, the Democrats said the special counsel should investigate any possible violation of federal criminal law, noting that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act says the monitoring of U.S. citizens and residents - without a warrant - is punishable by imprisonment.

Bush administration officials have argued the program does not fall within that law. They say Bush was exercising his constitutional authority as commander in chief when he allowed the National Security Agency to monitor - without court approval - the international calls and e-mails of people inside the U.S. when one party may be linked to terrorism.

The administration also maintains the president had the power to order the surveillance under a broad 2001 authorization to use military force in the war on terror.

The 18 lawmakers also want the special counsel to consider any crimes that may be committed to interfere with the investigation, including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence and witness intimidation.

The request harkens back to Libby, who was not indicted specifically for leaking Plame's name, but for an alleged cover-up that included five counts of obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements to FBI agents.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Mar, 2006 01:21 pm
Quote:
Wednesday, March 01, 2006
Important developments in the NSA scandal

(updated below)

There were multiple noteworthy developments yesterday in the NSA scandal:

(1) There is a truly amazing 50-state survey (h/t Markos) on the views of Americans regarding the NSA scandal -- and specifically their beliefs about whether George Bush broke the law. In 37 out of 50 states -- including numerous pure red states -- a plurality believe that it is "clear" that Bush broke the law. The best state for Bush is Oklahoma, where only 42% believe that he clearly did not break the law - the highest number of any state which believes that.

And, in almost every state, between 20-25% believe it's not clear one way or the other, which demonstrates that scores of people are still open to being persuaded on this question. And added to that is the fact that three consecutive polls (.pdf) now show that a majority of Americans believe that George Bush broke the law when ordering warrantless eavesdropping on Americans.

If we had a Democratic President and there were polls showing that a plurality of people across the country, in every region, had concluded that the President "clearly" broke the law -- and that a majority of Americans overall believe he did so as well -- would Republicans be taking advantage of that fact as aggressively as possible, or would they be running away from that issue in fear? And, what are Democrats currently doing with regard to the President's overt law-breaking and the fact that, despite the tepid and frightened posture of the Democrats, a majority of Americans have concluded that George Bush broke the law? Within the answers to those questions lies the most compelling explanation as to why the Bush Administration has thus far been able to get away with all sorts of ineptitude, corruption and wrongdoing -- even getting re-elected in the middle of it all.

A plurality of Americans across the country believe that the President is "clearly" engaged in criminal acts, and a majority of all Americans believe he broke the law. That is a startling state of affairs. And large numbers of people who have not yet reached that conclusion are open to be being persuaded. What possible excuse exists for Bush opponents not to engage in full-throated efforts to persuade them? This is a weakened, highly unpopular President who has broken the law and most Americans know that. Is there any conceivable justification -- ethical, political, strategic or otherwise -- for Bush opponents and proponents of the rule of law not to pursue this law-breaking as tenaciously as possible?

(2) The Senate Judiciary Committee held hearings on the NSA scandal yesterday with a panel of professors and former government officials (including conservative Administration critic Bruce Fein and the odious defender of Bush law-breaking, Professor Robert Turner). Part of what happened is here:

Quote:

Former Reagan administration Justice Department official Bruce Fein, an outspoken foe of the surveillance, told the committee that Congress ought to use its power to cut off the NSA program's funding.

"The power of the purse is perhaps the greatest power the Founding Fathers entrusted to the legislative branch" and it "should be used now" to end the program, Fein said, unless Bush explains why he could not stay within the confines of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which bans warrantless eavesdropping in the United States.

Former Clinton administration State Department official Harold Hongju Koh, who is now Dean of Yale Law School, told Specter's committee that the NSA spying was "as blatantly illegal a program as I've seen."

If Congress went along with Bush's rationale for the NSA spying, it "would turn this body into a pointless rubber stamp whose limited role in the war on terror would be enacting laws the president could ignore at will."

And Koh told Specter his bill wouldn't remedy the problem. One reason: Specter's bill would allow the FISA court to authorize the entire NSA spying program, not particular searches of particular people. Therefore it would allow a general warrant, which is what the Framers of the Constitution tried to ban by writing the Fourth Amendment, Koh said.


Unsurprisingly, Russ Feingold continued his heroic ways:


Quote:
Asked where the NSA controversy was headed, Feingold said, "It's up to Congress, whether Congress has the courage to stand up to an extreme assertion of executive power."

Feingold said cutting off funding is one option that he is looking at. "There's a time and a place to do that which is coming up soon," he said.

He added, "We have to address the fact that the president has broken the law." Feingold also said he opposed Specter's proposed bill because "it hands over congressional power to the executive a way that I think is very disturbing in terms of the protections in the Bill of Rights."


And, following up on the discussion here over the last few days about Arlen Specter, he apparently made statements at the hearings which makes clear that he believes that the program is illegal:

Quote:

Numerous lawmakers, including Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), disagree [with the Administration's claims that they can eavesdrop outside of FISA]. Specter says the NSA program violates the FISA law, and he is proposing legislation that would allow the FISA court to rule on the program's constitutionality and to oversee aspects of the surveillance operations.


I was unable to listen to the hearing, so if anyone finds where there is a transcript, I'd appreciate if you could post the link in Comments or e-mail it to me. From what I last heard, Specter still intends to call former DoJ officials James Comey, Jack Goldsmith and others to testify about the legality of the program, so the Juduciary Committee hearings will continue.

(3) For several weeks now, many people, including many at this blog, have speculated that two important as-yet-unrevealed facts were likely true: (a) that Gonzales' conspicuous efforts to confine his statements defending the NSA program to "the program described by the President" strongly suggested that there are other warrantless eavesdropping programs directed at Americans on U.S. soil which have not yet been disclosed; and (b) the whole AUMF justification for the warrantless eavesdropping program is an after-the-fact justification which the DoJ only invented long after the program started; the notion that the AUMF exempted the Administration from FISA was not an actual understanding of the AUMF which anyone -- including the Administration -- had when the AUMF was enacted.

An important article from this morning's Washington Post makes clear that both of those hypothesis are almost certainly true:

Quote:

Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales appeared to suggest yesterday that the Bush administration's warrantless domestic surveillance operations may extend beyond the outlines that the president acknowledged in mid-December.

In a letter yesterday to senators in which he asked to clarify his Feb. 6 testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Gonzales also seemed to imply that the administration's original legal justification for the program was not as clear-cut as he indicated three weeks ago.

At that appearance, Gonzales confined his comments to the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping program, saying that President Bush had authorized it "and that is all that he has authorized."

But in yesterday's letter, Gonzales, citing that quote, wrote: "I did not and could not address . . . any other classified intelligence activities." Using the administration's term for the recently disclosed operation, he continued, "I was confining my remarks to the Terrorist Surveillance Program as described by the President, the legality of which was the subject" of the Feb. 6 hearing.

At least one constitutional scholar who testified before the committee yesterday said in an interview that Gonzales appeared to be hinting that the operation disclosed by the New York Times in mid-December is not the full extent of eavesdropping on U.S. residents conducted without court warrants.

"It seems to me he is conceding that there are other NSA surveillance programs ongoing that the president hasn't told anyone about," said Bruce Fein, a government lawyer in the Nixon, Carter and Reagan administrations.


And Gonzales all but admitted he was misleading in his testimony before the Committee because he tried to imply - falsely - that the Administration, from the beginning, interpreted the AUMF as authorization to conduct warrantless eavesdropping. As has been apparent for quite some time, nobody - including the Administration - ever interpreted the AUMF as providing such authorization until DoJ officials made clear that they had no legal justification for this program and therefore went in search of such justification, leading them to the fabricated AUMF claim:

Quote:

On Feb. 6, Gonzales testified that the Justice Department considered the use-of-force vote as a legal green light for the wiretapping "before the program actually commenced."

But in yesterday's letter, he wrote, "these statements may give the misimpression that the Department's legal analysis has been static over time."

Fein said the letter seems to suggest that the Justice Department actually embraced the use-of-force argument some time later, prompting Gonzales to write that the legal justification "has evolved over time."

One government source who has been briefed on the issue confirmed yesterday that the administration believed from the beginning that the president had the constitutional authority to order the eavesdropping, and only more recently added the force resolution.


Given that: (a) not even the Senate has any idea what the scope is of warrantless eavesdropping on Americans; (b) it is clear that the lawless eavesdropping extends beyond what we know; and (c) a majority of Americans believe that the actions that we do know about are illegal, it is inexcusable - to put it mildly - for the Senate Intelligence Committee not to hold hearings on what our Government is doing in its warrantless, lawless eavesdropping on Americans. Speaking of which:

(4) The next two states we are targeting as part of our state-based effort to demand NSA hearings by the Senate Intelligence Committee are Nebraska (Hagel) and Maine (Snowe and Collins). It has been reported that both Hagel and Snowe are inclined to vote for Sen. Rockefeller's motion to hold such hearings. That government officials have now confirmed the existence of other warrantless eavesdropping programs on Americans renders the need for hearings that much more urgent. If you live in Maine or Nebraska or have connections to that state and want to participate in what we are doing, please contact Jane Hamsher or Thersites at Vichy Democrats.

UPDATE: This article from the New York Times suggests serious Repbulican discord over what to do about this scandal -- including some substantial disagreement about Specter's proposed legislation to submit the entire program to adjudication and oversight by the FISA court:

Quote:

Stepping into the growing debate in his party about the Bush administration's domestic eavesdropping, the Republican leader Bill Frist pushed a group of Republican senators on Tuesday to work out conflicting approaches to legislation to address the program.

Senator Frist's efforts reflect the increasing determination of Republican lawmakers to impose some form of oversight on the program, through which the administration has secretly sidestepped the existing legal authorities for years to spy on thousands of domestic communications with terror suspects abroad. But lawmakers and staff members leaving a meeting called by Mr. Frist said deep disagreement remained within the party over how to rein in the administration. . . .

Still, people at the meeting, speaking on condition of anonymity because its deliberations were supposed to be confidential, said the group remained sharply divided. . . .

Others in the meeting questioned whether the foreign-intelligence court's approval for the whole program might risk rejection by the Supreme Court, according to the people present. They said still others argued that involving a court would clash with the president's war powers. . . .

In contrast, Senator Mike DeWine, an Ohio Republican on the Judiciary Committee, is proposing legislation to give the administration authority to tap phone calls or e-mail with parties outside the country that involved a known member of a designated terrorist group on at least one end. . . .

Mr. Specter and Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska objected that Mr. DeWine's proposal left the administration too much leeway to spy on suspects without seeking outside approval, according to the people present. They also worried the proposal would retroactively legitimize the program before Congress learned it scope.


Congressional Republicans and Bush followers are going to want to depict these as minor differences, to be easily resolved at some point. They are anything but that.

The question which lies at the heart of this scandal - does the Bush Administration have the power to act free of Congressional and judicial oversight and restriction -- is the question which is deeply dividing his own party in Congress. And they seem unwilling to allow the issue of past law-breaking to be resolved until they know exactly what the scope of the eavesdropping was - not just with regard to the program revealed by the Times, but all eavesdropping programs of Americans.


http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/03/important-developments-in-nsa-scandal.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 06:56 am
This issue seems to have died down, what with the port deal and all I guess.

Anyway, on Think Progress (I don't always like what the consider important or agree with them, but all in all it's a pretty good place to keep up to date on a lot of issues, for a liberal) I come across this:

Pentagon Admits To Improperly Snooping on Peaceful War Protesters
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 05:36 pm
Senator Robert Byrd said on the Senate floor:

"in the name of fighting terror, are we to sacrifice every freedom to a president's demand? How far are we to go? Can a president order warrnantless house-to-house searches of a neighborhood where he suspects a terrorist may be hding? Can he impose new restrictions on what can be printed, what can be broadcast, what can be uttered privately because of some perceived threat - perceived by him - to national security? Laughable thoughts? I think not."

On February 16, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence declined to investigate the National Security Agency's ongoing, largely illegal snooping on domestic telecommunications and cyberspace. Instead of indicting Bush, Congress is poised to retroactively approve his clearly criminal action.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 07:03 pm
revel wrote:
This issue seems to have died down, what with the port deal and all I guess.


It died down because it does not amount to a hill of beans. Most people that care, know this has been done for a long time in some form or another, not just by Bush. Furthermore they want the government to monitor communications and other activities that have terrorist links. In case some people have not heard yet, organizations like the FBI and CIA were created for reasons including the problems we have with terrorists now.

One program before Bush, known as Able Danger, actually identified some of the hijackers, but the findings of Able Danger were pooh poohed by the 911 Commission. Obviously, the Able Danger program was involved in "data mining" of private transactions, phone calls, etc. In this era of terrrorism, I think this needs to be done, with oversight of course.

This problem is not a big problem. Since there is disagreement on whether it is legal, some legislation needs to be put together to allow us to do what needs to be done, and with proper oversight provided. Pretty much all presidents in time of war have considered it legal, and some have gone way far beyond what the Bush administration has done.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 07:08 pm
okie, You probably still haven't heard about FISA. It's the latest laws established by congress that our government must follow. Anything else is not legal. Bush intentionally broke the FISA law. He must be impeached; nobody in government is beyond the laws of our Constitution or Bill of Rights. They cannot takeaway our Constitutional rights by fiat.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 07:10 pm
When each government elected individual accepted their position, they swore to uphold the Constitution. They cannot negate that subsequent to their swearing into office.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 07:52 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, You probably still haven't heard about FISA. It's the latest laws established by congress that our government must follow. Anything else is not legal. Bush intentionally broke the FISA law. He must be impeached; nobody in government is beyond the laws of our Constitution or Bill of Rights. They cannot takeaway our Constitutional rights by fiat.


So let me get this straight.

When congress passes a law,everyone must follow it?

OK,what about when the laws contradict each other?
Which law takes precedence?
If I follow the new one,I am breaking the old one.

Now,what about laws that are never rescinded,but have become outdated?
Do we still follow them?

If you say yes,then every motorist in Ca is violating the law,by not firing a shotgun into the air and waving a red light before they go thru EVERY intersection.
Should we still do that?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 07:56 pm
I'm not the one responsible for the enforcement of our laws. I do not wear a badge, nor have I ever worked in the legal professions.

The only thing you have straight is your ignorance.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 08:01 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm not the one responsible for the enforcement of our laws. I do not wear a badge, nor have I ever worked in the legal professions.

The only thing you have straight is your ignorance.


But you do believe that we should follow every law passed by congress.
That is what you said.

So,do we follow the old,archaic,outdated ones also if they have never been rescinded?

That is a simple yes or no question for you.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 08:03 pm
No, what I said was the president and congress must follow the laws established by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They have failed to follow the laws, and should be impeached.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 08:20 pm
To me the value of America lies not in the size of our GNP or army; it lies in our freedom from OUR OWN government. It is so wrong when our government minimizes our rights to privacy and freedom of expression in order to keep us free from domination by OTHER governments.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 09:18 pm
JLNobody wrote:
To me the value of America lies not in the size of our GNP or army; it lies in our freedom from OUR OWN government. It is so wrong when our government minimizes our rights to privacy and freedom of expression in order to keep us free from domination by OTHER governments.


JLN,

Our worst enemy is our own Government in power ... they wish to dominate us much more than anyone else does!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 11:28 pm
Anon, while that is often the case in practice (with the indirect but real collusion of corporate America), it isn't necessarily so, at least not in principle. Citizen groups, by means of the electoral system, can influence the power and actual practices of government and big business.
In other words, we must be active and vigilant rather than pessimistic and passive.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 11:41 pm
JLN, The ideals about "we must be vigilant and active" are nice sound bites, but all we need do is look at how the American People rates our current president to know we are way over our heads. With so much incompetence and mishandling by the current administration of our needs as Americans, and the refusal to admit mistakes about Iraq, and the increase in the national debt, a good 40 percent still thinks Bush is doing a good job.

As Anon said, "our worst enemy is our own government in power." They deplete our treasury, and continue to put our men and women in harms way for a cause that's been lost before it began - and continues to worsen. We still hear from this administration that we are making progress. Even the generals puppet this message to the American People - while the insurgency goes unabated, and more of our brave men and women gets killed.

Rummy's a knucklehead who can't be trusted, and he's primarily responsible for not having provided our troops with the right equipment to our soldiers that died needlessly. There was a report a few months ago that said over 80 percent of our marines died, because they didn't have the right equipment. Where's the anger from the loved ones? Most Americans are blind to this.

I don't have hope, but I'm angry as hell, because our government has failed their jobs. I'll bet you dollars to donuts most of them will be reelected.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 11:49 pm
okie wrote:
revel wrote:
This issue seems to have died down, what with the port deal and all I guess.


It died down because it does not amount to a hill of beans. Most people that care, know this has been done for a long time in some form or another, not just by Bush. Furthermore they want the government to monitor communications and other activities that have terrorist links. In case some people have not heard yet, organizations like the FBI and CIA were created for reasons including the problems we have with terrorists now.

One program before Bush, known as Able Danger, actually identified some of the hijackers, but the findings of Able Danger were pooh poohed by the 911 Commission. Obviously, the Able Danger program was involved in "data mining" of private transactions, phone calls, etc. In this era of terrrorism, I think this needs to be done, with oversight of course.

This problem is not a big problem. Since there is disagreement on whether it is legal, some legislation needs to be put together to allow us to do what needs to be done, and with proper oversight provided. Pretty much all presidents in time of war have considered it legal, and some have gone way far beyond what the Bush administration has done.


This is just so much bull.

Quote:

Top 12 media myths and falsehoods on the Bush administration's spying scandal

1: Timeliness necessitated bypassing the FISA court

Various media outlets have uncritically relayed President Bush's claim that the administration's warrantless domestic surveillance is justified because "we must be able to act fast ... so we can prevent new [terrorist] attacks." But these reports have ignored emergency provisions in the current law governing such surveillance -- FISA -- that allow the administration to apply to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for a search warrant up to 72 hours after the government begins monitoring suspects' phone conversations. The existence of this 72-hour window debunks the argument that the administration had to bypass the law to avoid delay in obtaining a warrant. The fact that the administration never retroactively sought a warrant from the FISA court for its surveillance activities suggests that it was not the need to act quickly that prevented the administration from complying with the FISA statute, but, rather, the fear of being denied the warrant.

2: Congress was adequately informed of -- and approved -- the administration's actions

Conservatives have sought to defend the secret spying operation by falsely suggesting that the Bush administration adequately informed Congress of its actions and that Congress raised no objections. For example, on the December 19 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor, host Bill O'Reilly claimed that the NSA's domestic surveillance "wasn't a secret program" because "the Bush administration did keep key congressional people informed they were doing this." The claim was also featured in a December 21 press release by the Republican National Committee (RNC).

In fact, both Republicans and Democrats in Congress have said that the administration likely did not inform them of the operation to the extent required by the National Security Act of 1947, as amended in 2001. Members of both parties have also said that the objections they did have were ignored by the administration and couldn't be aired because the program's existence was highly classified.

As The New York Times reported on December 21, Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI), former Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), Senate Intelligence Committee ranking member John D. Rockefeller IV (D-WV), and Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) have stated that they did not receive written reports from the White House on the surveillance operation, as required by the National Security Act:

The demand for written reports was added to the National Security Act of 1947 by Congress in 2001, as part of an effort to compel the executive branch to provide more specificity and clarity in its briefings about continuing activities. President Bush signed the measure into law on Dec. 28, 2001, but only after raising an objection to the new provision, with the stipulation that he would interpret it "in a manner consistent with the president's constitutional authority" to withhold information for national-security or foreign-policy reasons.

[...]




http://mediamatters.org/items/200512240002

Sorry for the long quote, but just in case someone don't want to click on the link.
0 Replies
 
 

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