Offended by Christmas?

Ahhh, dys has a point....

It's the whole Christian take over that everyone thinks doesn't exist.

Why is a holiday thought of primarily as a Christian holiday, a federal one as well?

We think people are trying to get rid of Christmas and pick on Christians due to reports of christmas lights being banned on streets, nativity plays being cancelled, release of december christmas stamps on purposely having no mention of anything christmassy or religious, but themes of ethnicity took over.
Thats why I think Christians are being picked on.


I have no idea how other religions celebrate therefore I have no idea if its being celebrated openly or to its full potential.

Id be happy to see all religions celebrated on the lawn of any public places.
We can all learn about each other from each other, why keep it hidden?

I haven't heard of this and this is definitely not my fight. Where is this happening? You should be able to decorate your private property any way you'd like. It's the public domain that I am talking about.

This gets a little hairy though, because of private store owners. Would they fall under the private or public domain? I have been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that I don't think there should be a law about this, except in cases of govt buildings and the like. I do think, however, that the smart and compassionate person would refrain from ostracizing a certain group of people by only saying Merry Christmas or decorating with Christmas stuff.

A viable option. But will it happen?

I've been trying to learn more about Bella Dea but she's prude and frigid. (and she hates xmas as well as labor day)

If it doesn't mention "anything christamassy," then how is it a "christmas stamp?"

Last I knew, December had 30 days that were not Christmas and only one day that is.

I do not hate Labor Day!

Jeeze...

Exactly, Bella.

Thing is, Christians complaining about discrimination or about everyone not getting into "the spirit" is a little like Bill Gates (or select any other exceedingly wealthy individual) complaining that the Hummer he ordered is more magenta than burgundy.

Woe is me
in my SUV

What I mean is, it's a tiny complaint, a complaint that 90% isn't enough if all you really want is 100%.

Since I am certain that will be misinterpreted, I will try to explain. The Christian (and Catholic) religion is the majority in the US. Actually, it's the VAST majority. It's huge. Don't believe me? Try going to a mall, turning on a radio or a TV or checking out what's for sale in bookstores. Yep. It's almost all Christmas. Sure, there are a few bows to other faiths but they're small. It's Christmas, front and center.

It is just about everywhere. It is all-pervasive. Christianity in the US is in no danger of being destroyed or diminished. It suffers no shrinkage in number of followers. It is huge.

And that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the push to make it 100%, to make it everything and everywhere, even more than it is. To turn it into a monolith where there is nothing else. Where it is everything. That I should get into the "Christmas spirit". That it's a universal holiday. That even Jews celebrate it (just because a few folks do this does not mean all of us do; hearing such things makes me cringe -- I don't expect any of the Christians on here to observe Ramadan, do you?). That everyone should enjoy the blessings and the decorations.

It is not universal. It is not everywhere. It is not everyone. And for gosh sakes, what's the deal with Christmas spirit? As if charitable giving and kindness were inextricably linked to only one season, one people, one belief system. It's not the Christmas spirit, it's the human spirit. It's the charitable spirit. It's the kindness spirit, if you must give it a name. But don't slap a Christmas label on it. Despite how secularized it has become, Christmas is still a religious festival. It still centers around the birth of Jesus Christ. All the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeers and Christmas specials on UPN don't change that.

Want to experience Christmas the way I do? Try living in another country, one where you are not in the vast, vast, vast majority, during a major holiday. How about India during Diwali? And see how it feels, to be urged into the season, to be pushed by well-meaning people to fit in (whether overtly or covertly or subtly), and to be assumed to be something you are not.

It is the winter season.

And I will not be caroling.
And I will not be putting up a tree.
And I will not be putting up decorations.
And I will not be making a ham.
And I will not be watching Christmas specials.
And I will not be wrapping gifts in green and red.
And I will not be putting a wreath on my door.
And I will not be putting up holly or mistletoe, or buying a pointsettia.

I say these things not for your pity. Oh, poor jespah, how miserable that must be! What a terrible time of it! How depressing to be a Jew! How unfestive! How sad!

But it's not that I'm not happy. I'm very happy. I don't do the above-listed Christmas things any more than I expect any of my Christian/Catholic friends to fry up latkes, pray in Hebrew, light a menorah or spin a dreidel.

You are you and I am me. There are differences in the world. Maybe even on your street. And these are not bad or pathetic differences. They aren't less vital because only a few people do 'em. It's very fashionable these days to be rude and less than sensitive in an effort to not look like you're bowing to political correctness. I agree that political correctness can often be absurd. But there's a reason why it was created in the first place; it was started because there really are people who are getting offended and pressured and put upon. I take nothing from your holidays when I ask for them to not wiggle their ways into courts and City Halls and the like. And I ask for no one to push me to embrace it because everybody's doing it. Well, not everybody is.

And that's all. I know it will be in the supermarkets and the malls and up and down my street. To deny that is to deny reality. I don't hate Christmas. I want my friends to enjoy themselves. Just don't ask me to lead you all in a rousing chorus of "Silent Night".

Sheesh. What a Scrooge....

Hear, hear, Jespah . . . what a wonderfully expressive and cogent doggy you are . . .

Well, I think for Christians (and maybe even some others) it is not just a tiny complaint. We see it as Christ/God being systematically removed. I would imagine it's hard for some to see how we can view it that way. Just as it is hard for us to view the way others see it.

This is definitely not a problem in my hometown, except for Wal-Mart, that is. Wal-Mart does the Happy Holidays thing.

You should see downtown Jonesboro! The whole downtown area is nothing but lights and Merry Christmas. Yes, even the courthouse. It doesn't seem to be a problem here. And, I know there are plenty of other religions here and atheists, agnostics, etc.

What is the solution? I wish I knew. I think a good start would be if each side could try a little harder to understand the other side's viewpoint a little better.

Sorry, but I gagged at the first post on this thread. Talk about right out of the Christian Right play book! Debbie must attend Thomas Road Baptist Church to think she has to be so obnoxious and in your face about her religion!

I agree with those saying Christmas is a religious holiday that should NOT be displayed on public property, nor should employees be told to greet customers with "Merry Christmas." (Nice post above by Jespah!)

It isn't a matter of offending anyone, it's a matter of recognizing that not everyone is a Christian and therefore shouldn't be greeted with a blanket "Merry Christmas" or face national boycott campaigns by Falwell and his ilk.

I'd love to see a giant Menorah (sp?) on the lawn of every courthouse. How many would be okay with just a giant lighted Menorah and no other decorations?

Anyone besides Jespah?

'Cause if you aren't okay with that, you shouldn't be okay about a Christmas tree.

The other thing is, this whole "Christmas is being eroded" and "Christians are being discriminated against" when Christians are 80% of the population in the uS is ludicrous! How self centered and downright NON Christian to go around blabbing such nonsense!

Christians are not a minority. IMO, Martin Luther King would NOT have been bothered so much by not having customers greeted with "Merry Christmas" as he would be by 80% of the population claiming discrimination falsely or Fox News disingenously claiming King would be bothered by it.

The whole issue has nothing to do with Christ, Christmas or Christians. The whole issue is only an issue because the Christian Right (Falwell, Robertson and others) started this campaign to pump up contributions in December and rally "christians" to make a political scene over something not even happening.

When you don't see a Christmas tree at the courthouse or governors mansion, Christmas decorations at the mall, or no Santa for kids to get their pictures with, let me know.

Then we can talk.

When I tell someone Merry Christmas, I am not telling them Merry Day to you that the Savior of the World was born.

I am saying Merry Holiday, Happy Holiday, etc. Do you really believe Christians are forcing their religion on you by saying Merry Christmas? Do you think it is a conscious thought that oh, this is a Christian holiday and everyone should celebrate it?

I, for one, happen to think that Christmas has become more commercial than anything else. I consider it a time for friends to gather, exchange gifts, etc. If I want to celebrate the religious aspect of it, I do. I go to church. I can't say that I ever had the conscious thought of, "Merry Christmas is Christian and you'd better recognize that." Don't you think all of this is getting a bit out of hand? If you will notice, in that original post I even pointed out how I thought Debbie was wrong in some of her behavior. I am talking about all of us here.

I think that is the main point of the original post. It's all about everyone focusing on what they want, on whether or not they, themselves, are getting what they want. This sounds so much like gimme, gimme, gimme to me. And yes, I am just as guilty of it as everyone else is.

It's a holiday. For some it means something other than what it does to me. So, we are all free to celebrate it the way we want to. Are we to go around and ask everyone, Ok, what is the holiday to you so I can more appropriately wish you greetings? Isn't the important thing that we are all wishing happiness to each other?

It's not that we are offended when someone says "Merry Christmas." It's that some Christians are apparently offended when their personal religious beliefs are not affirmed by shopkeepers who say "Happy Holidays" to customers in recognition of the diverse traditions celebrated in a multicultural country.

I am surprised that you equate skin color with religion, whether out of bigotry or ignorance. Christians come in all colors and sizes, as do Jews, Muslims, African-Americans, Buddhists, pagans, etc.

No one is stopping anyone from celebrating any way they like. But don't expect the rest of us to cater to your personal religious beliefs with special greetings, signs, nativity scenes on government property, playing your songs exclusively, or whatever it takes to make you feel warm and fuzzy, to the exclusion of those who celebrate winter holidays differently, or not at all.


Information about other cultures has aways been available for anyone willing to make the effort to see past their own upturned nose. You may not have heard of them because other religions do not demand that their customs be imposed on everyone and whine if people fail to give them the attention they think they deserve. You can find out everything you want to know about by going to your local library, visiting their places of worship, or looking them up online, at sites such as: December Holidays It is always appreciated when you get your facts straight before posting ignorant diatribes.

I have never heard of lights being banned, but perhaps they violated local ordinances or the city simply does not have the money. Do you have a reference for any place they were actually banned? Churches and private schools are free to do nativity plays, as they always have been. Why on earth should religious plays be performed in public schools?

The holiday cookie stamps issued Oct 2005 include Santa Claus and an angel as well as snowmen and kids. The I. Chacon Madonna and child will be featured on stamps to be issued Oct 2006 (new Madonna stamps were not issued in 2005 because of a surplus of 2004 ones and the pending price increase). Snowflakes stamps will be issued Oct 2006 as well, and I suppose you will complain because they are not "Christmassy" enough.

And I'm saying we can all just say "Happy Holidays" then instead of Merry Christmas and no one feels left out or offended.



No. I'm a Christian. But were I not, I can see how it would make me feel.




It's exactly because it has NOT been a conscience thought in the past that I'm more than happy to give it thought, pause and then wish you a Happy Holiday. It should be a conscience thought. Making it conscience helps us remember that we are not all Christians, and we should respect each other as brothers and sisters. We all descend from Abraham, right?

Yes, the important thing is that we are wishing happiness to each other. That message gets lost when a Christian tells a Jew or Muslim "Merry Christmas." It's kinda like sending a fruitcake to your mother-in-law. Give a little thought to your greeting (or mother-in-law gift) and it means a little more.

interesting, I was raised in a muslim country, the common greeting was "salaam aleichem" which literally translates as "peace to you" almost seems christian. I do note, however, the term "almost"

No matter what, someone is going to be offended. If it is demanded that we no longer say Merry Christmas then someone is offended. If we say, Happy Holidays, someone else is offended.

We will probably never be able to resolve this issue completely. I think the important thing is the intent of the greeting. I have a hard time believing that anyone would wish someone else Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays intending to offend anyone.

What's the solution? The same as it is for everything else. Lobby and vote to have the laws changed to the way you think they should be.

But, is it really so necessary to attack anyone in any way because they don't agree with you? I don't think so. You can agree to disagree and do what is within your legal right to do to change things.

Just think, all this time ALL of us are on here arguing about how to say Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or whatever it is to you, how much time are we spending away from family and friends spreading joy and love? Sound simple? Well, to me it is.

If the law is changed to Happy Holidays and no Merry Christmas on public buildings, etc., then I will live with it. I don't have to like it, but I will live with it. There are many laws on the books I don't agree with, but that's the way it is.

What I can't understand is why. Christmas is included in "Happy Holiday's" (along with all the others) whereas every other holiday is excluded from "Merry Christmas"



Of course not. And for the most part, it isn't an issue. But it's the principle of it. The principal of having a Nativity scene on the courthouse lawn proclaiming to the entire town that Christians are more important than Jews or Muslims.



I gotta be here away form them anyway so might as well make it worth it.



I will say it again, I don't think that a law should be enacted that prohibits this unless it is a govt or municipal building. Corporate stores are doing this not because of any law but because they know that you get more flys (shoppers in this case) with honey than you do with vinegar. They don't want to exclude anyone. They are Muslim and Jewish friendly. Come spend your money with us!!

Bella Dea,

I completely agree with you. Don't faint! I have no problem with it being taken out of government or municipal buildings. I don't want it taken out, of course, but I can live with it.

I think any person that has their god in place somewhere is not going to be too acceptable of removing it, no matter the reason. But, I can live with it.

Yes, stores do everything they can to get people in there to spend their money. My husband is a manager at Wal-Mart and he said they are not allowed to put up Merry Christmas or say it. Well, if that's the rule, then that's the rule and he says the employees abide by it. He doesn't like it, but he abides by it without voicing dissent.

well crap there goes this song down the tubes

We Wish You a Merry Christmas

We wish you a Merry Christmas;
We wish you a Merry Christmas;

We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Good tidings we bring to you and your kin;

Good tidings for Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Oh, bring us a figgy pudding;

Oh, bring us a figgy pudding;

Oh, bring us a figgy pudding and a cup of good cheer: Refrain

We won't go until we get some;

We won't go until we get some;

We won't go until we get some, so bring some out here: Refrain

We wish you a Merry Christmas;

We wish you a Merry Christmas;

We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.