Define God

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Apisa is like a rich heiress. He has inherited a veritable cornucopia of conveniences from the Christian machine, he can even tee up his balls to ensure he gets at least one good lie on every hole, and feels now that the machine is in the way of him getting the most out of it. A heiress of a chemical weapons magnate. Say.

He has to talk pure, unadulterated rubbish such as claiming to know what good and evil are without any specifications, in order to avoid owning up to the real reason he adopts his extremely cliched sophistries.

And it stands out like a chapel hat peg. An antique one.

He is so proud of it that he would enjoy, weather permitting, showing it to us all. At the mere drop of a hat too.

Not often that someone is so anxious to tell me that I own him. I thank you for that, Spendius. Try not to let me bother you so. It is unseemly.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

I suppose a Catholic theologian would say your post was heretical

1. The story of God goes much beyond the Christian religion, dating back to 11 c. B.C. in Ancient Egypt. Unfortunately no reliable text is available.
2. As we really don't know what is this story with God & the Prophets all about, the Church cannot not claim exclusive rights over the story and to self-proclaim as exceptional 'business owner of the process' of interpretation ... moreover it is doing nothing on the issue (to find the real truth about this and to 'delete from the equation' the fake stories and the fake interpretations of the fake prophets ... and of the conpemporary church businessmen that surpass everything so far).

spendius wrote:

And Christianity has proved to be a way out.

Way out of what? It is not way out of poverty. It is not way out of ignorance. Out of what is the way?

spendius wrote:

Irrespective of whether God exists or not or that the story "is a mess".

The story is obviously a mess without any chances of being arranged ... ever. One good point to start arranging the things is to establish the existence (or non-existence) of God onto the moment of communication with the prophets.
If some of the communications have objective grounds to be set aside and to be analyzed seriously. The fables from the pub to be put into a chancery box and to be shipped into open space with the first transport.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

neologist wrote:

Good analogy regarding conscience here: http://able2know.org/topic/213933-2#post-5463095

mesquite wrote:

No Neo, instinct doesn't cut it for this tale. I know you are fond of your supposition that Adam and Eve were created with a perfect conscience, but this tale makes it clear they were not. In this tale eating magical fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was required to give the pair a functional conscience.

Frank Apisa wrote:

This is one of the mysteries of A2K. Neo is no dummy...not by a long shot. So he has to see the absurdities and contradictions of this particular story. Perhaps the more involved ones later are open to some argument...but THE POINT of the Adam and Eve story is that the god did not want them to know the difference between right and wrong...between good and evil.

THE POINT is that the could only get that knowledge if they ate the fruit of that special tree...that the god located smack dab in the middle of the garden where they could see it every day.

The story is an absurdity as a moral lesson...unless the lesson is that the god is a being bent on delighting in punishing humans for no decent reason at all.

Neo has to see this.

Skeeter, Frank, Romulans, Countrymen;
What makes a good athlete? He/she practices until the moves come automatically.
Like instinct.
A2d how does your conscience work?

Keep going . . . .

What part of automatically did I fail to communicate?

Is that like . . .

Instinct?

2 Replies

@Herald,

Herald wrote:

1. The story of God goes much beyond the Christian religion, dating back to 11 c. B.C. in Ancient Egypt. Unfortunately no reliable text is available. . . .

It's pretty well established that Moses compiled his writings in the 16th Century BC. Beyond this point, I must admit complete ignorance of whatever point you are trying to make.

Are you trying to say that, if there is a God, He has left us to figure things out for ourselves?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

At the theological level, the management of the sexual urge, you couldn't bother a fly.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

At the theological level, the management of the sexual urge, you couldn't bother a fly.

I wonder...are you more obsessed with me...or with sex?

And I wonder further...do you tie the two together in some weird way?

0 Replies

@Herald,

Quote:

The story of God goes much beyond the Christian religion, dating back to 11 c. B.C. in Ancient Egypt.

In western culture there is only one God to consider. Other cultures are completely inaccessible to us. That's why we make so many mistakes in dealing with them.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
Good analogy regarding conscience here: http://able2know.org/topic/213933-2#post-5463095

mesquite wrote:
No Neo, instinct doesn't cut it for this tale. I know you are fond of your supposition that Adam and Eve were created with a perfect conscience, but this tale makes it clear they were not. In this tale eating magical fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was required to give the pair a functional conscience.
Frank Apisa wrote:
This is one of the mysteries of A2K. Neo is no dummy...not by a long shot. So he has to see the absurdities and contradictions of this particular story. Perhaps the more involved ones later are open to some argument...but THE POINT of the Adam and Eve story is that the god did not want them to know the difference between right and wrong...between good and evil.

THE POINT is that the could only get that knowledge if they ate the fruit of that special tree...that the god located smack dab in the middle of the garden where they could see it every day.

The story is an absurdity as a moral lesson...unless the lesson is that the god is a being bent on delighting in punishing humans for no decent reason at all.

Neo has to see this.
Skeeter, Frank, Romulans, Countrymen;
What makes a good athlete? He/she practices until the moves come automatically.
Like instinct.
A2d how does your conscience work?

Keep going . . . .

What part of automatically did I fail to communicate?

Is that like . . .

Instinct?

How do you miss the point?

What pressure do you exert on yourself to avoid seeing this story for what it is?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

. . .How do you miss the point?

What pressure do you exert on yourself to avoid seeing this story for what it is?

No Fair, Frank. I was going to ask you the same. . . . .

I think Moses would agree with me were he still available to post.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . .How do you miss the point?

What pressure do you exert on yourself to avoid seeing this story for what it is?
No Fair, Frank. I was going to ask you the same. . . . .

I think Moses would agree with me were he still available to post.

I think there are lots of people who fear this frightening god...who would agree with you. It would have little to do with reason. In fact, it would have nothing to do with reason. It would have to do with fear.

But if you can...bring Moses on. I'd love to play golf with him.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:

I think there are lots of people who fear this frightening god...

Only those who reject him and his son need fear him.. Wink

"Lord,pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name" (Psalm 79:6)
"They will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath" (Revelation 14:10)
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif

1 Reply

@Herald,

Those contradicting quotes were taken "straight" out of the bible. No amount of your rationalizations can change what's in the bible. Your interpretations are fiction as well as what's in the bible - as the word of god.

0 Replies

Cicerone Imp said:

Quote:

Your interpretations are fiction..

Okay mate, tell us YOUR interpretation of these verses.. Smile

-

"Lord,pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name" (Psalm 79:6)
"They will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath" (Revelation 14:10)
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:
I think there are lots of people who fear this frightening god...

Only those who reject him and his son need fear him..
"Lord,pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name" (Psalm 79:6)
"They will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath" (Revelation 14:10)
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)

My guess is that the people who reject this god...are one hell of a lot less likely to fear him than the people who think the god actually exists.

The people who actually think the god exists seem, to me, to fall into two groups:

The first group fears the god with a passion...and will do anything not to do or say anything that might cause the god to suppose its existence was being questioned.

The people in the second group are are apparently insane...because if they do not fear this barbaric god, they simply do not understand the words written in the Bible.

The god that Jesus worshiped is a monster, Romeo. Anyone who truly thinks that god actually exists and is not in absolute dread...is not thinking.

But thanks for trying to be clever, Romeo, and for trying to present this argument in a humorous way. I gotta tell ya, though, that sort of humor may go over great wherever you cam from...but it needs a lot of tuning before it will work here.

I do appreciate your trying, though.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

#1: The bible is a fictional book written by people 100 years after the myths were established as fact.
#2: There are no other documents that supports what is claimed in the bible; all those miracles. Why all those miracles before but not after the period in question?
#3: The Egyptian Book of the Dead was used for the basis of the bible.
#4: Virgin births were myths much older the the jesus story.
#5: Nobody can define god, because humans have created many, and have worshiped them believing their god was the only "true" god. The Hindu religion has thousands of gods. The Hindus devotion to their god is no less than christian's belief in their god.
#6: This planet is over 4.5 billions years old; that's based on science. The bible claims this earth is 7 thousand years old. WAKE UP!
#7: Science and evolution answers most questions about our existence.
Gods are unnecessary crutches.
#8: Research has proven that prayers do not work except for the person praying for himself usually based on health issues. Ergo; third party prayers do not work. God does not answer prayers.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

. . . The people in the second group are are apparently insane...because if they do not fear this barbaric god, they simply do not understand the words written in the Bible.. .

Fra-a-a-a-nk!

1 Reply

Frank Apisa claimed:

Quote:

The god that Jesus worshiped is a monster

Sigh....i sometimes feel like i'm running a sunday school class here!
Jesus said- "I only say what my father tells me to say" (John 12:49),
and went on to say-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

Gettit? Those words came directly from God through Jesus's mouth, so which of the words makes you call God a monster?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romeo Fabulini, he hits a hole in one yet again.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/zu1sA_zps94c5327a.jpg~original

2 Replies

@neologist,

16 c. B.C. is nothing as a period of time in comparison to 105 c. B.C. (the Tomb of the Visitor & Mother Geb)?

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-

Any good person understands these basic human virtues. Many people that never heard of jesus lived that way! Many different cultures were based on sharing food and shelter, and they never heard of any of the gods in India or the Middle East even before or after the bible came into existence.

It's based on the love of man and humanity; I believe the majority of humans have this inherent in their genes. It's called the "human family."

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

#1: The bible is a fictional book written by people 100 years after the myths were established as fact.

Glad you acknowledge them as fact

cicerone imposter wrote:

#2: There are no other documents that supports what is claimed in the bible; all those miracles. Why all those miracles before but not after the period in question?

As Paul said, regarding the incomplete Bible: "For we have partial knowledges and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with." (1 Corinthians 13:10)

cicerone imposter wrote:

#3: The Egyptian Book of the Dead was used for the basis of the bible.

Not familiar with that. Could you provide references?

cicerone imposter wrote:

#4: Virgin births were myths much older the the jesus story..

And?

cicerone imposter wrote:

#5: Nobody can define god, because humans have created many, and have worshiped them believing their god was the only "true" god. The Hindu religion has thousands of gods. The Hindus devotion to their god is no less than christian's belief in their god.

Probably best to allow Jehovah's name to define itself. "He who causes to become"

cicerone imposter wrote:

#6: This planet is over 4.5 billions years old; that's based on science. The bible claims this earth is 7 thousand years old. WAKE UP!.

Actually, creative days are not literal 24 hour days. Genesis 2:4 makes this clear when it lumps all 6 into one. And, yes, the seventh day is still running. So kazillions of years could be involved.

cicerone imposter wrote:

#7: Science and evolution answers most questions about our existence.

Which, I suppose, is why reputable scientists reviled Priestly, a Christian, for his theory of oxygen combustion.

cicerone imposter wrote:

#8: Research has proven that prayers do not work except for the person praying for himself usually based on health issues. Ergo; third party prayers do not work. God does not answer prayers.

We'll leave that one till later.

2 Replies

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