Define God

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
The story of God goes much beyond the Christian religion, dating back to 11 c. B.C. in Ancient Egypt.

In western culture there is only one God to consider. Other cultures are completely inaccessible to us. That's why we make so many mistakes in dealing with them.

God does not start with Jesus. Jesus is the 'return of God' (according to ancient prophecy).

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

16 c. B.C. is nothing as a period of time in comparison to 105 c. B.C. (the Tomb of the Visitor & Mother Geb)?

Since written records go back only 5 millennia +/-, I suppose you will now provide stunning evidence for your claim.

1 Reply

@neologist,

We'll leave ALL of your responses till later; they are meaningless babble that doesn't answer any of the statements I've made.

HINT: You can't use the bible to support the bible. Fiction = fiction; logic 101.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Any good person understands these basic human virtues. Many people that never heard of jesus lived that way! Many different cultures were based on sharing food and shelter, and they never heard of any of the gods in India or the Middle East even before or after the bible came into existence.

Which echoes Paul's observation at Romans 2:14,15 "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) "

BTW, another affirmation of our inborn conscience.

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@neologist,

cicerone imposter wrote:

#3: The Egyptian Book of the Dead was used for the basis of the bible.

neologist wrote:

Not familiar with that. Could you provide references

The reference:
http://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hermetics.org%2Fpdf%2Fsacred%2FBookOfDead.pdf&ei=mZNZUtvRKM7CtAa904CoAw&usg=AFQjCNEL-vuVofDU8qBGAt9sTLB-qQNHqw

... but this is not the oldest known version.
A copy of the Book of the Dead has been found inscribed upon the coffin of Menthu-hetep, Queen of the XIth dynasty, 25 c. B.C. ... and it is believed that the book is much older.
All the basic concepts about ethernal life, immortality, heaven and hell etc. are laid down there, and who how, and when let the fly to the ancient Egypteans about that immortality is not estabished.
One of the assumptions leads to the Tomb of the Visitor (105 c. B.C.), but the data are insufficient for the validation of the hypothesis.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Sorry.
Not about to download a PDF and sort through it looking for connections.

You made the assertion. You provide what you believe are the connections

1 Reply

@neologist,

neo, You must read what I post, or we'll not progress to the next "level." Mr. Green

Quote:

HINT: You can't use the bible to support the bible. Fiction = fiction; logic 101.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

We'll leave ALL of your responses till later; they are meaningless babble that doesn't answer any of the statements I've made.
HINT: You can't use the bible to support the bible. Fiction = fiction; logic 101.

Then you can't use the Bible to impeach the Bible.

BTW, I believe I made only one scriptural reference to your list of rants.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

neo, You must read what I post, or we'll not progress to the next "level."

Sounds like something I said to you a few years back

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@neologist,

Quote:

I suppose you will now provide stunning evidence for your claim.

Stunning evidence No.1: There aren't any donkeys in the Book of the Dead
Stunning evidence No.2: Nobody puts on trial the loyalty of anybody ... in the local pub.
Stunning evidence No.3: All the basic concepts of the Bible are there, but pay attention, without the Genesis. Genesis is simply a Collection of Fables pasted to some other texts (just don't ask me as a result of what).

Unfortunately I cannot provide any serious evidences, for all the witnesses of the oral tradition are 'dead on arrival'.
Yet, logical analysis could be performed about the level of generalisation of the concepts used, the maximal level of details that the Book of the Dead gets down to, verification in terms of plausibility of the claims, belief revision with probabilities of the statements and the events, etc.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Then you can't use the Bible to impeach the Bible.

Fiction is still fiction; it's not a matter of "impeaching" the bible. It destroys itself from all the inconsistencies, errors, and omissions.

How do you defend Superman the comic as "real?"

Please provide proof/evidence.

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

....Unfortunately I cannot provide any serious evidences, for all the witnesses of the oral tradition are 'dead on arrival'. . . . .

Then show us your logical analysis

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@cicerone imposter,

Gotta go buy beer for the big game
See ya

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@cicerone imposter,

Superman the comic is real enough. There are millions of copies to prove that. The fictional character of Clark Kent, who is secretly an alien with awesome powers however...
The stories serve their purpose without the need for an actual Superman existing.

In my opinion it's the same with the bible. It has value to some, just as the jedi religion is 'real' enough to some people that it has become an actual, official religion.
Those christians who insist that their bible is an accurate historical account do not understand the value or the power of their own faith, and by making such claims they invite scorn and doubt.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

But you're talking about two fictional characters with one known to be 100% fictional, and the other as "real."

But, with all human realities, you do have a point.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . The people in the second group are are apparently insane...because if they do not fear this barbaric god, they simply do not understand the words written in the Bible.. .
Fra-a-a-a-nk!

Yes, Neeoooo!

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Frank Apisa claimed:

Quote:
The god that Jesus worshiped is a monster

Sigh....i sometimes feel like i'm running a sunday school class here!
Jesus said- "I only say what my father tells me to say" (John 12:49),
and went on to say-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

Gettit? Those words came directly from God through Jesus's mouth, so which of the words makes you call God a monster?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romeo Fabulini, he hits a hole in one yet again..

The god Jesus worshiped...the god of the Old Testament...is a monster. That is why the Christians of today want to avoid that god at all costs.

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@cicerone imposter,

In 2000 years, who knows. Maybe they'll believe that this character Superman really existed. Maybe, if someone influential a couple of hundred years from now has some power or wealth to gain by making people believe it, it might indeed be so.

1 Reply

Frank Apisa said:

Quote:

The god Jesus worshiped...the god of the Old Testament...is a monster. That is why the Christians of today want to avoid that god at all costs

Nah, he understandably had to slap the primitive heathens around to gain their respect.. Smile

Likewise, when Riker joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch Klingon 2nd Officer Klag and throw him across the bridge to get the respect of him and the rest of the crew.. Smile

When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he sent Jesus to give us the new upgrade, and people gladly downloaded it.. Smile

"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
Remember, Jesus saves, not the OT, right Klag?

"Grrrr..."

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/klagB.gif

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

BTW, another affirmation of our inborn conscience.

What is inborn is primal narcissism. Conscience is a conditioning of the vanity which is not under stress and affected manifestations of it are social strategies for assimilation into group consciousness.

That is why barbaric acts are common in stressed communities.

The martyrs to conscience are stressed out of their wits. It is the ultimate vanity.

When Emily Davison threw herself in the path of the King's runner in the 1913 Epsom Derby she was blissfully unaware that women's suffrage would come when a certain type of politician could use it to achieve power.

The Labour Party in the UK is agitating for the voting age to be lowered to 16. Polls have shown that if 16 year olds voted it would provide the Labour Party with a million or two extra votes.

The arguments are easily thought up and expounded.

It's a standing jest what it is that has no conscience. In Orwell's horrible book, which no lady should be allowed to read, he treats the other end of the pleasure/pain spectrum.

"My God, my God, why has't thou forsaken me?"

1 Reply

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