DOES THE ACLU DO MORE GOOD OR MORE HARM?

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It is ACLU a champion of civil rights and the constitution? Or is an organization engaged in legal terrorism?

From the ACLU website:

"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. . . .

. . . .The ACLU needs your help to defend our most basic freedoms! The Bush Administration is rolling back our rights in the name of homeland security . . . extremists on the Christian Right have the ear of the White House . . . and the federal judiciary is increasingly hostile to civil liberties."

What its opponents are saying:
"42 U.S.C. Section 1988 provides an incentive to attorneys to take on representation of victims of civil-rights violations who could not afford legal counsel and thereby to fulfill the promise of the Civil Rights Act and certain specified federal statutes." Source: Rees Lloyd, former ACLU staff attorney. Quote from Lloyd: "... its good intentions have been exploited by the ACLU to reap enormous profits through what I believe is manifestly in terrorem - terrorizing - litigation to enforce its secular political, cultural and social will on elected officials and the American people by lawsuits attacking Boy Scouts and every symbol of America''s religious history and heritage in the public square."

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I think they do mostly good.

That is not to say that I agree with everything they do.

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The usual attacking without any facts....

Source for Fox's attack piece is here
http://www.legion.org/?content=aclu_magarticle

let me quote from it...

Quote:

As to the total amount reaped by the ACLU, I do not know of any definitive study that has gathered up all the attorney-fee awards granted to the ACLU across the nation.

It appears not having any facts doesn't prevent an attack on the amount of money the ACLU is making.

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Yes indeed the ACLU does more harm than good, why if it weren't for them the KKK would still be in business.

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...and that quaint little amusement of the occasional lynching would still be legal.

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A good start. Though Acquiunk was dead wrong about the source of the starting paragraph. You are right though that there is no good source of what monies the ACLU has raked in as they refuse to open their books to anybody. It is my understanding that data is being gathered from other sources however.

Seriously as a former card-carrying member of the ACLU, I can definitely vouch that they do some good things and they come down on the right side of some issues. Lately I have come to believe that they are in it much more for the money than for any altruistic purposes. Dry up the government money that pays them to sue cities, counties, schools, etc. and I think you'll see a lot fewer of those kinds of suits.

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Could you sign this petition being circulated by CourtZero?

WHEREAS, the American Civil Liberties Union (the ACLU) has shown itself to be hostile to religious expression by private citizens and the civil rights of people of faith; and

WHEREAS, the ACLU has declared war on the Boy Scouts of America, the military of the United States, Christmas displays, public buildings that display the Ten Commandments, and many other American traditions; and

WHEREAS, the United States Congress, roughly thirty years ago, passed a provision in United States Code section 1988 that requires taxpayers to pay attorneys in civil rights cases; and

WHEREAS, the ACLU has abused that law to make untold millions of dollars simply by suing boy scouts, school children, military academies, cities and towns, with the goal of punishing any who dare to exercise their First Amendment right to religious freedom and expression; and

WHEREAS, the vast majority of taxpayers do not want to be forced to pay the ACLU to sue their neighbors and friends in the ACLU's efforts to strip America of all signs of faith; and

WHEREAS, the Establisment Clause of the First Amendment was not contemplated when USC section 1988 was passed;

THEREFORE, the People of the United States call upon their Congress to amend USC section 1988 so that hostile special interest groups such as the ACLU can no longer be granted taxpayer money to attack Americans and their institutions.

We, The People, call upon our elected representatives to amend USC section 1988 so that fees are not awarded to the ACLU or any other plaintiff in Establisment Clause cases. We wish for the Free Expression Clause to implicate at least the same financial incentives as attacks upon faith currently have.

The petition is attracting some interest at other sites now and has been mentioned at least once on Capital Hill:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41635

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Selective editing appears to be a congenital flaw of the Right.

Quote:

The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth) and the Nineteenth Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled.

The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 400,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state.

The ACLU has maintained the position that civil liberties must be respected, even in times of national emergency. The ACLU is supported by annual dues and contributions from its members, plus grants from private foundations and individuals. We do not receive any government funding.

http://www.aclu.org/about/aboutmain.cfm

Why not be a member of an organization whose sole purpose is to insure that the government is forced to obey and enforce its own laws that preserve individual freedom.

I am a member of the ACLU, and if you believe in freedom why aren't you?

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Foxfyre, your notion of religious liberty is to side with the majority group in any town and let them use the taxpayer supported institutions to further their own religion.

What about the guy who wants to live and raise his kids in a minority religion? Doesn't he count? Why should his kids be made to feel like outcasts and abnormal in taxpayer supporter buildings and institutions simply because their parents choose to raise them in a different religion from what is popular in those regions?

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Quote:

WHEREAS, the ACLU has abused that law to make untold millions of dollars simply by suing boy scouts, school children, military academies, cities and towns, with the goal of punishing any who dare to exercise their First Amendment right to religious freedom and expression; and

Really? Untold millions? Or is this just made up crap to promote an attempt to get rid of the ACLU?

The religious right has stolen untold millions from poor people. We need to pass a law to tax all religious activity at 100% of its income to prevent this from happening.

That statement is about as valid as the one about the ACLU.

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No, I could not sign that petition.

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As a card carrying member, I can only marvel at those people who try to villify the one organization which actually does some work in the courts to insure that this country does not become a theocracy; the only organization which has the legal expertise to help safeguard our civil rights; the only organization which routinely does pro bono work to redress inequalities and injustices, often perpetrated by government agencies. Would I sign that petition, foxy? Not if you held a gun to my head, I wouldn't.

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I am a former card carrying member who achieved some stature in our local ACLU group.

But get more specific guys. Lets hear some specifics, not generalities.

Here's one case that hits close to home for me:

ACLU objects to village's logo
KOBTV.com ^ | 9/2/05

The New Mexico chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union is objecting to the new logo for the Village of Tijeras. Some village residents are objecting to the ACLU.

At issue is the village seal, an image containing depictions of a conquistador's helmet, a sword and a Catholic rosary. It's the last item that has the ACLU concerned.

"Religious minorities cannot be made to feel like outsiders simply because the government endorses in an unenlightened way the majority faith," says Peter Simonson, the executive director of the New Mexico ACLU.

"It's part of the culture that has been the Village of Tijeras for centuries," argues Mayor Gloria Chavez, who later said, "the response I got from people is fight it, don't sit back."

"I don't see why this needs to be an issue or an episode," said Tijeras resident Norm Scott. "This has nothing to do with the first amendment or my civil liberties. This has something to do with people having nothing better to do."

Simonson has said the ACLU would rather settle this disagreement without taking any legal action. But on Thursday, Simonson said that village officials are not listening to reason and he may have to resort to the courts.

If the case winds up before a judge, the legal precedent will be on the ACLU's side: In 1985 the ACLU successfully sued Bernalillo County to have a Spanish cross removed from the county's seal. That cross has been replaced with a Zia.

(Foxfyre's note: A Zia is a Native American religious symbol and is also the symbol of the State of New Mexico and prominently featured on the state flag.)
SOURCE

Can you guys cite a case in which the ACLU has defended the Boy Scouts or anybody whose right to the free exercise of religion was being infringed?

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Is this why the right love to hate it?

Or would less partisan folk find reasons too?

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the hatred by the christian right is due to the aclu affirming the rights of minorities, especially religious minorities.

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Hmmm.

I'd have to do some research but the one thing that pops into my head is an old thing from back in the 70s where some predominately Jewish community in Illinois didn't want the Nazi party holding a rally.

The ACLU went in on behalf of the Jewish residents.

I thought they were wrong.

Despite the fact that I find the Nazi party abhorent, I believe they have a right to hold their rally.

If I recall, the ACLU lost the case, as they should have.

The Jewish population felt that their "right to free excercise of religion was being infringed" upon by the Nazi party holding their rally.

The ACLU stood in their defense.

The Nazi party also has a right to peacable assembly.

In my opinion, their right to assemble was Constitutionally protected.

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When I joined the ACLU they were great and I have no problem with them whatsover in the 1970's and early 1980's or earlier. Any cases from that era and you'll just be -preaching to the choir.

It is the last decade or two that the problems have occurred. So give me something recent that will change my mind (and a lot of other minds) that the ACLU is not specifically targeting counties, towns, communities over their minutely religious symbols on seals or groups over faith based issues however insignicant any religious emphasis is. Give me any case in which the ACLU has defended somebody's constitutionally protected right to the free exercise of their religion.

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Could you be a bit more specific?

What specific cases go against your grain?

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The case referenced re the County of Bernalillo and the suit that willl be filed against the Village of TIjeras, if it has not already been done, for two. So those cases I think the ACLU is 100% out of line, especially when we the taxpayers have to pay their lawyers to file and argue them.

I'm asking you specifically if you can find any case in the last 20 years in which the ACLU has defended any person's right to the free exercise of religion or defended any entity's right to display a religious object d'art etc.

I can find plenty of cases similar to Bernalillo County and the Village of Tijeras where the ACLU has gone after counties, towns, villages, etc.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Can you guys cite a case in which the ACLU has defended the Boy Scouts or anybody whose right to the free exercise of religion was being infringed?

Gonzales v. Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao de Vegetal

http://www.aclu.org/scotus/2005/UDV_brief.pdf

Employment Division v. Smith 494 U.S. 872 (1990)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0494_0872_ZO.html

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DOES THE ACLU DO MORE GOOD OR MORE HARM?

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