Atheists... Your life is pointless

@BillRM,

Are we back to the ******* tooth fairy again. A2K defies evolutionary principles.

Discovering everything there is to know at the age of 12 is very dangerous thing to do.

Do you know anybody who would refrain from adultery because a tooth fairy said so. You need armies and cold steel to restrain people from adultery and even then they are not completely effective.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281311)
Gods when you look at the concept is beyond illogical with special note when you add in an all powerful god that sit outside the laws of nature and can in fact change any of the laws at his or her or it whim.

You may consider it illogical. I do not. If you can create a syllogism that renders "the concept of GODS" impossible...please offer it for examination.

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The tooth fairy is a logical concept compare to some all powerful god existing.

That may be your opinion...but I doubt it is logical. (See above if you disagree.)

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Oh and without the all powerful concept then all you are just talking about is some superior being or beings that exist inside the laws of nature and therefore by my understanding is not a god or gods.

May I respectfully suggest that when discussing the nature of REALITY...your ability to understand something is not of high value. In fact, the collective ability of humans to understand something is not of particular high value when discussing that issue.

GODS may or may not exist.

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@spendius,

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Do the calculus of joy and agony for us Matt rather than snidely suggesting I need your counseling.

I am sorry if my comment was snide or if it came off that way.
Regarding the calculus of joy and agony, that calculus will of course depend on the relative value you place on joy and on agony. That value depends in large part on perception and personal disposition. If someone is truly of the opinion that life is not worth living, then that of course is going to tug at the heartstrings of anyone who knows the anhedonic signs of depression. Exercise and increased social contact are non-pharmacolocial ways of helping with that.
I've suffered through depression, I wouldn't want others to also suffer.

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@MattDavis,

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I've suffered through depression, I wouldn't want others to also suffer.

That's not the point Matt. What you have suffered and what you wouldn't want others to suffer has to include the risk of others suffering it. And the risks extend to the others not yet thought of. And there are innumerable risks of suffering.

What are the joys and are they worth the suffering. And the joys are subject to risk as well. In two ways. There might be a risk of not getting any and there might be a risk of the transient joy causing suffering. A very common occurrence.

So why would an educated atheist choose to inflict all this **** on an innocent unknown who is in a position similar to the one we were all in when the Black Death was scourging Europe.

I can give reasons. No trouble. A few actually.

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@Frank Apisa,

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GODS may or may not exist.

An the tooth fairy may or may not exist..................

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Uncertainty rules the day.

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@spendius,

T

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o go against such a tradition would result in those Christian groups having no influence in other directions which might well be for the greater good.

Yes sir showing/producing films for example tying in being a homosexual with being a pedophile is needed to promote the Christian faith!!!!!!!!!

In German in the 1930s good Christians needed to promote the killing of Jews to keep influence also as after all there was a lot of existing hate towards Jews in that nation at the time.

Or the Christians could not support the civil right movement in the Southern states during the 1950s to 1960s as they could not afford to loss influence with the racists.

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@BillRM,

That's right Bill. If you lose influence you are out of the game and then can do nothing to try to make the situation better.

You don't know whether influence with racists and persecutors of Jews didn't save some people who would not otherwise have been saved had Christian influence been altogether absent.

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@spendius,

I think that a responsible rational adult would evaluate the expected condition of his/her children. It seems to me that your perception is that the expectation is that a child will have a life, that said child would wish he or she did not have.
You seem to imply that a future child's preference would be non-existence. That could certainly be true for many circumstances in the world.
Is your question: why should those living in the first world continue to reproduce?
If that is your question, then my answer is 'probably not'. As I said before a reduced birth rate in these societies is not globally bad.
I have also said before that it makes no substantive difference who's children are whom's. We prize children regardless of whose womb they spilled from or whose sperm happened to venture up that womb 9 months before.
There is simply not enough difference (moral or biological) between my potential biological offspring and a stranger on another continent, for that to matter.

Here is something I have written before on that subject:
http://able2know.org/topic/208905-28#post-5274847
I use the word 'promiscuous' in it....he he he. Wink

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281321)
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GODS may or may not exist.

An the tooth fairy may or may not exist..................

That appears to be your thoughts.

Whatever...the REALITY is that there may be a GOD or gods involved in existence.

If you want to assert that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible...just make the assertion and provide the reasoning.

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What a bully . . . i knew this was likely to become entertaining.

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@Setanta,

Frank's ability at logic non-existent.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Re: Setanta (Post 5281375)
Frank's ability at logic non-existent.

Same challenge to you then, ci...if you want to assert that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible...just assert it and provide the reasoning.

Since you apparently can tell when "logic" is present and when it is non-existent, you should have no problem.

I won't be holding my breath. I doubt seriously you will even give it a stab.

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@Frank Apisa,

No, you're the one asking others to prove something you don't know exists. You have it all backwards.

Define god?

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@spendius,

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hat's right Bill. If you lose influence you are out of the game and then can do nothing to try to make the situation better.

It sure make the situation better to promote laws to jail homosexuals and product films that homosexuals as a group are pedophilias or that Jews poison the communities wells or whatever it happen to be..

Thanks for showing how evil religious people can be and what excuses they can use to be evil.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281386)
No, you're the one asking others to prove something you don't know exists. You have it all backwards.

No I am not. I am the one challenging people who seem to be suggesting that the existence of a GOD is impossible...

...just make the assertion and then provide the reasoning.

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Define god?

Ask that of people who are suggesting gods do not exist.

ci...I do not know the true nature of REALITY. The only thing I am saying is that gods might actually exist. Perhaps the thing I call "I"...may be a manifestation of that GOD.

All sorts of things are possible.

I am not willing to say certain things MUST BE...and certain other things CANNOT BE.

The people who are asserting THERE IS A GOD...are making a specific assertion of the existence of a thing they call GOD. A burden of (if not proof) evidence backing up the assertion. Usually these people have a decent notion of what they mean by "GOD."

The people who are asserting THERE ARE NO GODS...are making a specific assertion of the non-existence of a thing they call gods. A burden of (if not proof) evidence backing up the assertion. If people making those kinds of assertions are saying...well, I am not sure of what they are, but I assert they do not exist...you shouldn't waste time discussing the issue with them.

Are you saying, ci, that it is impossible for a GOD to exist?

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@Frank Apisa,

In both sentences containing ..."a burden of"...the sentence should end with "accrues."

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@cicerone imposter,

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No, you're the one asking others to prove something you don't know exists. You have it all backwards.

Define god?

Kind of impossible to prove a negative and that include god or gods or tooth fairies equally however that fact does not mean we can not be atheists on the subject of gods or the tooth fairies.

Zero solid proof of a god or gods or tooth fairies existing in all of human history is good enough to state in the real universe that none of these fantasy creatures exist.

Hell zero proof of one supernatural event occurring for that matter.

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@BillRM,

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Kind of impossible to prove a negative...

It is not impossible to prove a negative.

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... and that include god or gods or tooth fairies equally however that fact does not mean we can not be atheists on the subject of gods or the tooth fairies.

"Atheist" on the matter of the tooth fairy???

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Zero solid proof of a god or gods or tooth fairies existing in all of human history is good enough to state in the real universe that none of these fantasy creatures exist.

Right. And zero solid proof of living beings on any of the planets circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol has existed in all of human history...so we should conclude that no sentient beings exist on any of those planets?????

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply acknowledge that we do not know...and at the moment do not have any way to find out for sure?

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@Frank Apisa,

So Frank you are not an atheist when it come to tooth fairies either as they are just as likely or as unlikely to exist as a three in one all knowing god for example if not more so.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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