Atheists... Your life is pointless

@Frank Apisa,

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Right. And zero solid proof of living beings on any of the planets circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol has existed in all of human history...so we should conclude that no sentient beings exist on any of those planets?????

The existence of intelligent beings living on other planets in the universe does not break any known natural laws so it is not the same as having beings that are above the natural laws of the universe.

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@Frank Apisa,

Now, I get it! You can't define god, you don't know if god exist, but you want others to prove something you don't know yourself. Great logic, Frank.

How many fairies live in your house? Besides yourself, I mean.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281392)
So Frank you are not an atheist when it come to tooth fairies either as they are just as likely or as unlikely to exist as a three in one all knowing god for example if not more so.

Do you even know what the word "atheist" means?

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@BillRM,

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The existence of intelligent beings living on other planets in the universe does not break any known natural laws so it is not the same as having beings that are above the natural laws of the universe.

Okay...so are you asserting that YOU KNOW all the natural laws of the universe...and YOU KNOW that there are no entities that break those laws?????

C'mon...make that assertion...and provide the reasoning. I would really enjoy that.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281392)
Now, I get it! You can't define god, you don't know if god exist, but you want others to prove something you don't know yourself. Great logic, Frank.

Nice try, ci. Good for entertainment value. But no cigar.

If you have the stomach to make an assertion that it is impossible for gods to exist...make the assertion and give the reasoning. We can talk.

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How many fairies live in your house? Besides yourself, I mean.

There was a time when I would have said that is beneath your dignity. Actually, I would have been wrong.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Do you even know what the word "atheist" means?

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www.thefreedictionary.com/atheistOne who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods. ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms. Noun, 1. atheist - someone who denies ...

So as you had refused to define what the hell gods are we are surely free to expand the meaning to any creature or being that can break natural laws such as tooth fairies are we not.........LOL

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@BillRM,

Is the tooth fairy a god in your estimation, Bill?

If you are, are you asserting that tooth fairies do not exist?

If you are, please give your reasons.

No doubt I will use some of them for my own purposes.

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@Frank Apisa,

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YOU KNOW all the natural laws of the universe...a

What part of the words does not break any known repeat known nature laws of the universe you not understand?

Next you have refused to define what you mean by gods so I am going with the standard meaning that of an all powerful god being who would be above the natural laws of the universe both known and unknown natural laws and otherwise it could not be an all powerful god and would just be some version of a superior being working just like humans under the laws of the universe.

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@BillRM,

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Next you have refused to define what you mean by gods so I am going with the standard meaning that of an all powerful god being who would be above the natural laws of the universe both known and unknown natural laws and otherwise it could not be an all powerful god and would just be some version of a superior being working just like humans under the laws of the universe.

Okay, let's go with that.

Are you asserting that such a being cannot exist?

And what are your reasons for the assertion?

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@Frank Apisa,

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Is the tooth fairy a god in your estimation, Bill?

When you have define what you view as a god or the god we will discuss the issue of supernatural beings that can also break or work outside at least the known laws of the universe.

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@BillRM,

Bill wrote:

Hell zero proof of one supernatural event occurring for that matter.

This of course begs the question of what is defined as natural.
The attempt of all pardigmatic science is to accommodate understanding to match that which "is". To explain something and thus shift the "understanding" into the heading of "natural".
Thus getting at Frank's point that there could in fact be "natural" explanations for "God", especially depending upon what one defines "God" as.
The proper question from a scientific perspective is:
How much explanatory power, does a particular God concept have?
If it allows one to more accurately make predictions, this is evidence for the reality of that particular concept.
The most convincing arguments for or against a "God" from my view will have to rely upon an appeal to social/moral utility for humanity and continued existence.
Thus the discussion of this utility.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281409)
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Is the tooth fairy a god in your estimation, Bill?

When you have define what you view as a god or the god we will discuss the issue.

Fine with me. But then stop asking me if I am an atheist with regard to it.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Okay, let's go with that.

Are you asserting that such a being cannot exist?

I am asserting that the exists of such beings are as likely as the existence of the tooth fairy no more and no less.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281414)
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Okay, let's go with that.

Are you asserting that such a being cannot exist?

I am asserting that the exists of such beings are as likely as the existence of the tooth fairy no more and no less.

Well, since you have not asserted that the tooth fairy cannot exist...we are in agreement. Both conceivably could exist.

That is why I asked Nooneleft why he was asserting that a god cannot exist.

See...it all works out.

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@BillRM,

Gods exist like atomic particles exist. We can see neither but we can see their effects which we take as proof of their existence.

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@Frank Apisa,

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That is why I asked Nooneleft why he was asserting that a god cannot exist.

See...it all works out.

Sorry it does not work out as below a certain level of likelihood in the real world we state for example that tooth fairies and gods do not exist.

When an mathematics function approach zero we treat it as zero for engineering purposes even if in theory it never reach zero.

A capacitor never fully discharge but beyond 5 time constants or so we treated it as fully discharge.

It is neither logical or sane to act as if either gods or tooth fairies are real due to the inability to disprove a negative.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281422)
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That is why I asked Nooneleft why he was asserting that a god cannot exist.

See...it all works out.

Sorry it does not work out as below a certain level of likelihood in the real world we state for example that tooth fairies and gods do not exist.

When an mathematics function approach zero we treat it as zero for engineering purposes even if in theory it never reach zero.

A capacitor never fully discharge but beyond 5 time constants or so we treated it as fully discharge.

It is neither logical or sane to act as if either gods or tooth fairies are real due to the inability to disprove a negative.

It is not impossible to disprove a negative.

If you are saying that you agree it is not impossible, but that the circumstances make the task so difficult as to be termed "an inability"...what you ought to do is NOT make that assertion.

I notice you have not.

If you are asserting that it is impossible for a GOD to exist...please make the assertion...and provide your reasoning.

If not...you really ought not to be defending someone else making the assertion who seems unwilling to defend the assertion.

Unless, of course, you want to defend his assertion...which you can only do by making the assertion yourself.

So....where are we going with this?

In any case, Bill, stop trying to conceive of this as an adversarial position between us. One of the reasons (just one of the reasons) I have stopped using “agnostic” as a label is because I see the “antagonism” that exists between agnostics and atheists to be a needless impediment to what we seem both to want to combat…namely, the negative qualities and consequences of religion. (I suspect most of us do not want to take issue with the many positive qualities and benefits derived by some from religion)

I am not going to assert that “gods”, “tooth fairies”, “unicorns”, or “leprechauns” do not exist, primarily because I recognize that once an assertion of that sort is made, a burden of proof (or reason) is created that cannot reasonably and logically be made considering the size of what we call the universe…and the size of whatever greater might exist.

If you want to take on that challenge, though, go to it. We can discuss it.

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@Frank Apisa,

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t is not impossible to disprove a negative.

Yes it surely is an as an exercise for you please disprove the existence of the tooth fairy.

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@BillRM,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5281463)
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t is not impossible to disprove a negative.

Yes it surely is an as an exercise for you please disprove the existence of the tooth fairy.

I misspoke, Bill. When I read that comment of yours, I mistakenly thought you were restating your comment earlier that " you cannot prove a negative." Even when I cut and pasted it, the difference did not register. My error...I apologize and withdraw the comment.

Fact is, now that I read it, I am not even sure what it means...or how it impacts on what we are discussing.

In any case, to suggest that "the existence of tooth fairies" is a negative makes no sense.

But no one is asking you to "disprove a negative"...whatever that means.

If you are asserting "There are no gods" or "the existence of gods is impossible"...those are actually positive assertions. You are asserting that there are none.

I'm not even asking you to "prove" them...I am merely asking you to give your reasons for asserting them.

Stop walking around the issue: Are you asserting there are no gods?

If you are not, we have no quarrel.

But Nooneleft absolutely DID make such an assertion...and my question to him holds: How do you know that?

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This is hilarious. I knew this would be good.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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