62% of republicans thinks sadam was involved in 9/11

So Brandon admits that his post does nothing to answer Walter's post at all.

There is no question that Saddam played games with inspectors before. However, when Bush put the troops in Kuwait, ready to invade, Saddam agreed to cooperate.

In the first round of inspections, headed by Hans Blix, (whom the US opposed, for some reason), Saddam once again interfered with the inspections. Hans Blix told the UN that. However, Blix asked for, and got, a chance at a second round of inspections.

This was clarly Saddam's last chance at cooperation. And he did. Not because Saddam suddenly turned into a nice guy, but because he knew if he didn't, the invasion would begin.

Hans Blix reported that things were going smoothly, the Iraqis were indeed cooperating. Blix was given the run of Iraq-he could go anywhere he wanted at a moment's notice. He could inspect anyone's private house or farm, (this would actually be unconstitutional in the US!). The Iraqis were providing names and lists. Everything was going smoothly-and then Bush told the inspectors to get out because he was invading. Then he invaded.

Fact is, under the threat of invasion, the Iraqi were cooperiatng. If all Bush wanted to do is to find out about WMD's, he didn't have to invade. All he had to do was to let the inspectors tell him. Instead, he invaded anyway.

Bush intended to go into Iraq, WMD's or no WMD's. It's just that he felt he could sell the invasion to the public by telling them the world was in danger from Saddam's WMD's, and he wasn't about to let facts from the inspectors ruin the invasion fever his Administration had so carefully crafted.

It is interesting that all of our conservative friends here have argued that the invasion of Iraq was justified and necessary because Saddam didn't cooperate with the UN weapons inspectors.

Nevertheless, not one of them has succeeded in finding anything that would show how Iraq failed to comply with resolution 1441 or how Iraq didn't cooperate with UNMOVIC.

I guess they have just come to a point where they tell each other the same old stories over and over again, until they finally collectively believe them.

09/12/2002: President Bush speaks to UN and lays out Iraq's pattern of dishonoring 16 UN resolutions. The report refers to an Iraqi defector, interviewed by the NY Times in 2001, who claims to have visited over 20 secret chemical, biological and nuclear facilities in Iraq and who has supported his claims with documents. Bush asks the UN whether it will serve its purpose or become irrelevant.

12/19/2002: Blix issues his first report which has mixed views. He refuses to say whether Iraq possesses WMDs until UNMOVIC has reviewed the latest documents from Iraq. He admits that those documents appear to be merely reworkings of the same ones submitted in 1996. Blix says Iraq has disclosed its development of the Al Samoud missile and a variant that exceeds the permissible range. He notes that Iraq pointed out this fact and has explained it developed the missile when it was disputing UNSCOM's definition of its obligations. Blix says the issue will now need to be considered. Blix also notes that several questions remain unanswered, particularly about the existence of 500 mustard gas shells and the production and weaponization of VX. Blix states that UNMOVIC documents contradict Iraq's account of its production and unilateral destruction of anthrax in 1988 and 1991, and Iraq's account may not be accurate.

01/06/2003: Saddam calls UNMOVIC inspectors "spies."

01/17/2003: Inspectors find 12 empty warheads, all in excellent condition, which are designed to carry chemical weapons in a complex of military bunkers. Iraq claims it forgot about them, while the US and UK call the discovery the "smoking gun."

02/28/2003: Saddam Hussein says he agrees "in theory" with Blix's directions, but he has still not provided information on the VX and anthrax.

03/07/2003: Blix reports to the UN that issues with aerial surveillance have been worked out and the teams have been able to conduct no-notice inspections without resistance. He believes that Iraq has more documentation and could provide it but has refused to do so. Inspectors have found no evidence of clandestine operations or underground facilities. Since Iraq has recently provided more documents on the anthrax and VX, Blix believes that Iraq has finally determined to fully cooperate with inspections and urges more time for this.

03/07/2003: Powell responds by pointing out how long Iraq has failed to provide complete documentation, and the 17 prior occasions Iraq has denied the existence of items that the teams later turned up. Powell says there is no reason to believe that this pattern will ever end, and at some point Iraq must be disarmed by force if it will not do so voluntarily.

03/11/2003: The U.N. releases Blix's report which details extensive Iraqi activity to develop chemical and biological agent delivery systems. The report specifically notes that Iraq has drone aircraft that may be capable of delivering banned weapons, and that inspectors had discovered components for a 122 mm cluster bomb designed for chemical or biological warfare. According to Blix, Iraq claims the components were left over from an abandoned program. The cluster bombs are banned weaponry for Iraq and were not mentioned on its latest disclosures. Blix did not mention either issue in his verbal presentation to the UN.

This one cracked me up.

McG - denial is understandable. Time to give it up. It's all over for the lunatics in the White House. Don't worry though, there are competent people ready to take over. All will be well.

Denial of what? Old europe asked for evidence that "Iraq failed to comply with resolution 1441 or how Iraq didn't cooperate with UNMOVIC."

I have done that and fail to see the denial... Unless you are speaking of your own denial of what I have posted.

The "Save me guy" was thought by some, including me, to be a scientist, but he wasn't. His throat would have been cut if he had been, since the UN inspectors allowed the Iraqi police to drag him off without any questions.

Blix said "Scientists should find more elegant ways to approach the UN workers..."

Media Echoes: Family fears for Iraqi who sought help from UN - From James Bone, The Times, London UK

We have argued elsewhere in this journal that whether or not a transnational entity is necessary, it definitely isn't the United Nations. Here is yet another apparent failure of the United Nations that has received little attention. The original can be viewed here.

Family fears for Iraqi who sought help from UN From James Bone in New York

THE family of an Iraqi man hauled from the vehicle of a UN inspector in Baghdad have appealed to Amnesty International to help to save him.

Like television viewers around the world, Adnan Abdul Karim Enad's relatives were shocked to see him clambering into a UN inspector's jeep on January 25 clutching a notebook and screaming "Save me! Save me!" in Arabic. A UN inspector sat motionless in the front seat as Iraqi guards pulled the 29-year-old man out of the car and carried him away by his arms and legs.

Abidalrahim Al-Nuimi, a relative living in America, said the family was involved with the Iraqi opposition abroad and Adnan may have feared retaliation by Iraqi authorities.

"I believe he did that to get refugee (status) because he cannot wait too long. I know this guy very well. He is aggressive. He ran away from the Iraqi army because he did not think he could serve Saddam. They put him in jail for two years.

"We just want to make sure he is alive. We tried to call. Our relatives in Baghdad cannot say anything." Mr AlNuimi, who asked that his precise relationship with Adnan not be disclosed, said the family feared not just for his well- being but also for the fate of other family members in Iraq. They have written to President Bush and Amnesty International seeking their help.

Hans Blix, the chief UN inspector, appeared flummoxed when questioned about the case this week but said that he would consider raising it in his talks tomorrow in Baghdad.

He said the inspectors did not know the identity of the man pulled from the vehicle and were awaiting a report on the incident from the Iraqi authorities. The UN had not taken any other steps to ascertain whether the man might have been an Iraqi scientist or otherwise in possession of information he wanted to share with inspectors about Iraq's secret weapons programmes.

"I've just talked to our security chief in Baghdad . . . and he said there was nothing in the booklet he seemed to be carrying," Dr Blix said. He added that Iraqi scientists could find "more elegant ways" of approaching UN inspectors.

Mr Al-Nuimi said that he had no idea whether Adnan, who works in a market, might have had information about Iraq's weapons. "I cannot say he had some information about weapons, but what was going on with the file?"

Aziz Al-Taee, chairman of the Iraqi-American Council, said that the incident would discourage other dissidents from trying to seek sanctuary with UN inspectors. "They did not even listen to him. They just pushed him to the security forces. The security forces took him away and he has disappeared," he said. "They should have taken him into the UN barracks and interviewed him to see if he has a case."
------------------------

Lash, the war is over and we lost, it no longer matters.

March 15 2003 report: Iraqi non-compliance with UNSCR
This is a copy of the report released by the foreign secretary, Jack Straw
(reproduced in the Butler report)
Thursday April 28, 2005

IRAQI NON-COMPLIANCE WITH UNSCR 1441
15 March 2003

Iraq has failed to comply fully with 14 previous UN resolutions related to WMD.

UNSCR 1441 is unambiguous: "Recognising the threat Iraq's non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security" (PP3)

"Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions" (OP1).

"Decides... to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council" (OP2).

"Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq... and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and co-operate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations" (OP4)

The attached material assesses Iraqi progress in complying with relevant provisions of UNSCR 1441 with illustrative examples.


The Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems...as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material" (OP3)
Although a 12,000-page document was submitted on 7 December,
Dr Blix, 27 January "Regrettably, the 12,000 page declaration, most of which is a reprint of earlier documents, does not seem to contain any new evidence that would eliminate the questions or reduce their number".
Dr Blix, 14 February "
IAEA written report, 27 January "The Declaration contains numerous clarifications. It does not include, however, additional information related to the questions and concerns", outstanding since 1998.

Outstanding issues thatin Iraq's 7-8 December Declaration include:


.

Amount of mustard gas unaccounted for is at least 80 tonnes (in 550 shells and 450 aerial bombs) - but "based on a document recently received from Iraq, this quantity could be substantially higher" (Unresolved Disarmament issues, 6 March)

"Given Iraq's history of concealment with respect to its VX programme, it cannot be excluded that it has retained some capability with regard to VX" that could still be viable today. . . (Unresolved Disarmament Issues, 6 March) It was not until 15 March - over three months after the specified date for the Declaration - that Iraq provided a further document which it claimed contained additional information (although this remains unconfirmed).


"It seems highly probable that of bulk agent, including anthrax, stated by Iraq to be at AI Hakam in July/August 1991, . (Unresolved Disarmament Issues, 6 March) Failure to account for all of the aircraft associated with the L-29/Al-Bai'aa remotely piloted vehicle (RPV) programme. Furthermore, there is no explanation of 27 June 2002 RPV flight of 500kms ( the proscribed limit is 150kms).

Failure to account for material unaccounted for when UNSCOM were forced to withdraw from Iraq in 1998: for example, what happened to up to 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals, including 300 tonnes unique (in the Iraqi programme) to the production of VX nerve agent? UNSCOM estimated that quantities of undeclared growth media could have produced: 3-11,000 litres of botulinum toxin; 6-16,000 litres of anthrax, and 5,600 litres of clostridium perfringens. (Amorim and Butler reports, 1999)

According to Dr El-Baradei (IAEA written report, 27 January) the Declaration "does not include, however, additional information related to the questions and concerns" outstanding since 1998.
Dr Blix, 27 January. "Iraq did not declare a significant quantity, some 650 kg, of bacterial growth media, which was acknowledged as imported in Iraq's submission to the Amorim panel in February 1999. As part of its 7 December 2002 Declaration, Iraq resubmitted the Amorim panel document, but the table showing this particular import of media was not included. The absence of this table would appear to be deliberate as the pages of the resubmitted document were renumbered."

The 7 December Declaration maintains that the Al-Samoud 2 missile has a maximum range of 150kms. UNMOVIC and a panel of international experts have established that the Al-Samoud 2 is a prohibited system, designed to have a range beyond the 150 kms limit imposed by the UN in 1991 - one variant having a range (based on separate Iraqi data) of just under 200kms.



The Declaration claims that its UAVs and cruise missiles adhere to UN restrictions. However, recent inspections have revealed a type of unmanned drone that was not referred to in the Declaration, and its range easily exceeds the UN proscribed limit of 150kms.
The Declaration also fails to account property for work on aircraft fuel drop tanks that were converted to deliver CBW agent. The UN found modified aircraft fuel tanks at the Khan Bani Sa'ad Airfield in December 2002. These tanks were stated to have been part of an indigenously manufactured agricultural spray system that was said to have been produced by the Iraqi Air Force (Unresolved Disarmament Issues, 6 March) According to an Iraqi document that UNMOVIC obtained separately from the Declaration, "13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi Air Force between 1983 and 1988, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tonnes. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for." (Dr Blix, 27 January)

Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA "immediate, unimpeded. unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC's or the IAEA's choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates" (OP5)

At first, none of the Iraqi personnel requested for interview by UNMOVIC agreed to be interviewed in private. At a meeting in Baghdad on 19-20 January, the Iraqi side committed itself to "encourage" private interviews. However, it was not until 6-7 February (i.e. just before Dr Blix and Dr El-Baradei's last visit to Baghdad) that three people agreed to be interviewed in private. But these interviews were with personnel volunteered by the Iraqi authorities,
On 28 February, a further two scientists were interviewed in private. As of 14 March, UNMOVIC had asked 41 people to be interviewed, but only 12 had agreed to
It was not until 26 February that the IAEA carried out its first private interview; as of 14 March, IAEA had only been able to carry out 3 private interviews.




Dr El-Baradei, 7 March: "When we first began to request private, unescorted interviews, the Iraqi interviewees insisted on taping the interviews and keeping the recorded tapes"

"UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi Government" (OP5)
No interviews have taken placed outside Iraq.


"UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq's chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities" (OP7)

. Dr Blix, 27 January. "Some 400 names for all biological and chemical weapons programmes as well as their missile programmes were provided by the Iraqi side. This can be compared to over 3,500 names of people associated with those past weapons programmes that UNSCOM either interviewed in the 1990s or knew from documents and other sources".

During February, Iraq supplied some additional names. However, the information provided is still inadequate. For example, according to UNMOVIC's document on Unresolved Disarmament Issues, 6 March, Iraq provided a list of people who worked in the entire chemical weapons programme - but Iraq's 132 names contrast with UNMOVIC's records, which show that "over 325 people were involved in chemical weapons research" at one establishment alone.

"UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles" (OP7)

Dr Blix, 27 January: "Iraq had insisted on sending helicopters of their own to accompany ours. This would have raised a safety problem." The matter was resolved when UNMOVIC agreed to take Iraqi escorts in UNMOVIC's own helicopters. Iraq also obstructed U2 reconnaissance flights over Iraq, placing unacceptable pre-conditions on the flights. Almost three months after inspections began, just before Dr Blix presented a report on Iraqi co-operation to the Security Council, Iraq finally relented. The first U2 flight took place on 17 February.

"UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove. destroy. or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof" (OP7)

. UNMOVIC has determined that the Al-Samoud 2 missile programme, as well as rocket motor casting chambers at Al-Mamoun, are prohibited under SCR687. This assessment has been confirmed by a panel of independent experts, who concluded that the (light) Al-Samoud 2 was designed to fly just under 200kms. In the case of the casting chambers, this equipment was previously destroyed by UNSCOM as being partof a prohibited weapons programme - but was subsequently rebuilt by Iraq. UNMOVIC gave Iraq a deadline of 1 March to begin the destruction of these prohibited systems (missiles plus associated components/infrastructure, and casting chamber). At first, Iraq said that the Iraqi authorities intended "to study" the demand. Then the Iraqi authorities said that they agreed "in principle" to the destruction of the missiles, "despite our belief that the decision to destroy was unjust... and the timing of this request seems to us to be one with political aims" (letter to Dr Blix from Dr Al- Saadi, 27 January).

Destruction began on 1 March, but Iraq has threatened that it may stop the destruction process at any time. As of 14 March, Iraq had destroyed:

- 65 missiles (Iraq has declared production of 76 missiles, but UNMOVIC estimate there are around 120 missiles)

- 42 warheads (out of 118)

- 5 engines (out of an estimated 380)

- 2 missile launchers (out of 9)

"Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations" (OP8)

Partially met. Inspections have largely been incident-free. However, UNMOVIC has noted some "friction" during inspections, and occasional harassment. On several occasions inspectors have been met with demonstrations. Dr Blix, 27 January. "Demonstrations and outbursts of this kind are unlikely to occur in Iraq without initiative or encouragement from the authorities."

On several occasions Iraqi authorities have claimed that inspectors were spying.

"Demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately. unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA" (OP9).

. The questions outstanding since UNSCOM was forced to withdraw in 1998 have still not been answered. Nor have those issues raised by the Amorim panel, a group of international experts convened under UN auspices to identify outstanding Iraqi disarmament issues. Although Iraq has provided some documents, it is not answering any substantive questions.

On 6 March, UNMOVIC released a paper on Unresolved Disarmament Issues - Iraq's Proscribed Weapons Programmes. The paper is a 173 page-long catalogue of Iraqi intransigence since 1991, detailing

- Some 29 occasions when Iraq failed, despite repeated requests, to provide credible evidence to substantiate claims
-

- 128 actions Iraq should now take to help resolve the outstanding issues

Dr Blix, 14 January. "Although I can understand that it may not be easy for Iraq in all cases to provide the evidence needed, it is not the task of the inspectors to find it. Iraq itself must squarely tackle this task and avoid belittling the questions."

Dr Blix 27 January "It is not enough to open doors. Inspection is not a game of 'catch as catch can'"
UNMOVIC written report, 28 February. "During the period of time covered by the present report, Iraq could have made greater efforts to find any remaining proscribed items or provide credible evidence showing the absence of such items. The results in terms of disarmament have been very limited so far"

Dr Blix, 7 March. "With such detailed information regarding those who took part in the unilateral destruction, surely there must also remain records regarding the quantities and other data concerning the various items destroyed"

Dr El-Baradei, 27 January. "Iraq's co-operation with the IAEA should be full and active, as required by the relevant Security Council resolutions."

There are a number of examples of Iraqi gestures which have been a pretence of co-operation.

Of papers handed over by the Iraqis in early February:

Dr Blix: "No new evidence was provided in the papers and no open issues were closed"

Dr EI-Baradei: "Iraq has provided documents on the concerns outstanding since 1998, but no new information was contained"

Of legislation on Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

UNSCOM - and now UNMOVIC - requested that the Government of Iraq pass legislation prohibiting the manufacturing or importing of WMD and associated material. Draft legislation was provided. On 14 February - the day of Dr Blix's last update to the Security Council - Iraq announced that it had passed a Presidential Decree to this effect In fact, the decree is totally inadequate: its scope is very limited, and it does not even suggest any penalties for offenders.

UNMOVIC written report 28 February. "The presidential decree, which was issued on 14 February and which prohibits private Iraqi citizens and mixed companies from engaging in work relating to weapons of mass destruction, standing alone, is not adequate to meet the United Nations requirements. UNMOVIC has enquired whether a comprehensive regulation is being prepared in line with several years of discussions between Iraq and UNSCOM/UNMOVIC"

Of Iraqi excavation of some R-400 bombs and bomb fragments In February, Iraq notified UNMOVIC that it had uncovered some R-400 bombs (indigenously produced, filled with chemical or biological agent). However, Iraq's declarations on R-400 bombs have been inconsistent and contradictory, leaving UNMOVIC with little confidence in the numbers produced or types of agents filled".

Photographic evidence contradicts Iraqi claims that all R-400A bombs (marked as filled with botulinum toxin and anthrax) were destroyed in July or August 2001. It is unlikely that the results of the ongoing Iraqi excavation will resolve this issue.


"UNMOVIC cannot discount the possibility that some CW and BW filled R-400 bombs remain in Iraq" (Unresolved Disarmament Issues, 6 March)
____________________

I'm sure now OE will humbly admit his error on all points.

The war is not over and we haven't lost, though Zarquawi and the one eyed bastard surely hope you think that and will convince your buddies. Your mindset is the best thing they have going for them right now.

"The war is over"...stick a fork in it. Ain't no way this will ever come out so that the US smells right. Never could and never will. The idea that 62% of Republicans believe... these must be what you call "broken glass Republicans"...they will crawl over broken glass to drink the Kool-Aid and believe.

Libs can sign up with Al Quaida? Sigh!

As long as people with their own political agenda sell out their own country to those who would destroy it, yeah. You're right. It won't ever smell right again. Bin Laden appreciates all the help, I'm sure.

That's funny, since it's the Republicans who seem to want to keep going with the strategy of doing exactly what al quaida wants them to do. Good strategy guys!

Irony lost in a sea of stupidity.

If you read the actual letter intercepted from al-Zarahri, you'll see that he wants us to follow the Democrat party line--and the one heard here ad nauseum.

kicky-- You don't base that on reality.

Actually, I shouldn't have used the word Republicans there. I should have said "war-mongering idiots and their supporters." So now that we're there, we now have the choices of either war for years and years and years, or leaving and letting the country become a terrorist state. Yes, those republicans really made the right call going in there and starting this ****. It's a lose-lose situation. Once again, I congratulate Bush and his supporters for a job well done.

If we finish the job, it would have been worth all this bullshit. Otherwise, you can look forward to NY turning into a Tel Aviv or Beirut. Have a little foresight.

Let them vote. Let them get on their feet. They're risking their lives every time they walk out the door and they're still voting and running for office.

It's not just for them.

The reality is that the US and the coalition forces' occupation of Iraq is an element that is fueling the insurgency in Iraq according to the Commanding General of the Multi-National Force in Iraq, George W. Casey.

What does finishing the job entail, Lash?

You're not basing your "NY to Tel Aviv or Beirut" comment on reality.

That's your prayer, anyway. Another person might acknowledge that among the millions of different things we could now do some would lead to victory.