How Do We Win in Iraq?

Kuvasz,

Thanks for your post. Good to see you on A2K again. We have a new Border Terrier that we got from England and he is a show champion at 16 months. I plan to do agility and obedience with him and just have fun! The other good news is we have a new Irish Wolfhound pup and is she a pip! Very outgoing and showy...I am going to show her in conformation as soon as she is 6 months. She is not quite 5 months now and growing bigger daily!

I would love to add a Kuvasz to the menagerie...we also have a retired racing greyhound named Maximus (largest one we have ever seen!), but Doc (my husband) would probably divorce me. We plan to get another Border Terrier from England soon and maybe show the male over there as he comes from top lines.

We are definitely animal nuts! It takes the mind off the tragedy around us. I can't imagine how all of this is going to work out. I can't stand the Bushies, but the Dems are hogs at the trough too. Perhaps we will need a revolution.

Come election time, I wonder how well Democratic senators who supported this idiotic war will fare. Of course, the administration is to blame but a large number of Dems were on board, too. I guess my question is will voters show their displeasure by ousting all of the rascals or will they stick to the safe party line?

I posted this in another a2k forum, but thought it appropriate for this one too! From the BBC:

Spain orders arrest of US troops
A Spanish judge has issued an international arrest order for three US soldiers over the shelling of a Baghdad hotel that killed a cameraman.
Judge Santiago Pedraz issued the warrant for Sgt Shawn Gibson, Capt Philip Wolford and Lt Col Philip de Camp, of the US 3rd Infantry Division.

Jose Couso, of Spanish TV network Telecinco, died in April 2003 when a US tank fired on the Palestine Hotel.

Reuters news agency cameraman Taras Protsyuk, a Ukrainian, was also killed.

The National Court agreed to consider filing criminal charges against three members of the tank crew two years ago, acting on a request from Mr Couso's family.

'No co-operation'

Speaking on Wednesday, the judge said he had issued the arrest order because of a lack of judicial co-operation from the US in the case.

The family of Mr Couso said they were delighted at the news, and that they now hoped justice would be done.

US officials say the tank crew believed they were being shot at when they opened fire, although TV footage of the incident did not record any incoming fire.

The incident was witnessed on TV around the world on the day before the fall of the regime of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, as the Palestine was the base for almost all the foreign media crews in Baghdad.

Earlier on the same day, a correspondent for the Arabic TV broadcaster al-Jazeera was killed when US missiles hit the network's office in Baghdad.

Following the incident, then-US Secretary of State Colin Powell said a US review of the incident had found the use of force was justified.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4357684.stm

Published: 2005/10/19 15:27:29 GMT

Hmmmmm.

How does one say "bite me" in classical Spanish?

LOL.

interseting to read how our american neighbours have to choose between dems and republicans, and some wind up hating the thought of having to choose one of them (unless you want to loose your vote).
in our canadian system - certainly not perfect and lots to complain about , frrmp, pfui, grrr - we do have the choice of giving our vote to one of the smaller parties (most european countries have this choice too). i prefer a smorgasboard over just two choices at mealtimes and feel the same about political parties. i believe the large parties have to work a lot harder to get the votes by having to compete with other, smaller parties. ross perot almost did it for the united states; sorry he didn't succeed in staying in the race after his first try. hbg

hamburger, agree with you here. It's about time that someone is calling the US on their bullshit.

But my prediction is this case will go no where, just like the US fly-boys who were hopped up on speed and killed 4 Canadians during the Afgan invasion. Bush never apologized. Big surprise. Most Americans never heard about it, of course, in their land of free speech.

Our political system here in Canada is much more representative than that in the US. And all of our politicians are even bilingual.

Ross Perot; interesting how he just disappeared from the screen. Wonder why he didn't keep on trying?

And all of our politicians are even bilingual.

french and?

English. How many languages do the U.S. politicians speak during a political debate? Since it is a larger ethnic group than any other group in Canada (other than English) I think it's very civil of them to try and communicate with the French as well. Of course, we have a Quebecois MP as well. Who also speaks English.

What this thread is ABOUT, however, is not bilingualism. It IS about the arrest, finally, of US troops in Spain. Finally, someone got some guts. Let's see where it goes. The U.S. will certainly never admit to wrong doing. Oh no, not with God on THEIR side! I like the cartoon someone pointed on on A2K about George answering the phone. The Devil was on the other end. The Devil said, "George, this is God talking....." Hubris will get ya every time.

Hamburger - don't forget Ralph Nader. He gave it the old college try, but the Democrats went to court to keep him off the ballot in many states.

Hmmmmm.

I wonder what they were afraid of????

They should tell the Sanish judge to go suck a lemon.

Interesting comment coming from someone who thinks 9/11 was an "inside job". LOL.

LOL! Colin Powell already has.

Oh, wait. What he actually said was that the matter had been investigated and the soldiers' actions were justified.

Same thing LOL.

Just wondering,

if you investigate other news sources, rather than just CNN, etc? Try BBC? You may get another version of the news. And yes, there is much proof that 9/11 could have been avoided. The CIA knew about a possible attack months before and did nada. If you do some google searching you'll find lots of info about that. Documented. Bush kept reading His Pet Goat book to schoolkids. Was that proper for a Commander in Chief when his country was supposedly under attack? Remember the World Trade Center had been bombed before, so they (the US) had plenty of warnings. It is the hubris of the U.S. that so many find disgusting. They can bomb whomever, whenever, but nobody had better touch the U.S. Where do they get off? If you have proof that it wasn't an inside job, I'd love to see it. I can send you lots of links to the contrary.

Also I fail to see why my comment is 'interesting for someone who thinks 9/11 was planned'. My saying it's about time US troops are called on for their actions by Spain, does not change my opinion, that 9/11 was pre arranged, does it?
Ask yourself this: would the Americans have gotten into the war in Iraq in such a patriotic fever if 9/11 had not happened. I think not, but what is your opinion? Wasn't 9/11 necessary in order to provoke the masses into revenge?

oh yes, and who was on the commission? the very same people who planned the whole thing. powell now says the war is wrong, so go figure!

I still see no evidence/links/proof to the contrary. Did you do a google search? You'll find tons of info to pick through.

some links for you to ignore or read, as you choose:

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF EMERGENCY"
by Sherman H. Skolnick 09/11/01

AMERICA'S REICHSTAG FIRE

The most massive so-called "terrorist" attacks on U.S. soil since the Oklahoma City bombings of 1995, were known, a week ahead of time, by the American CIA. Among the foreign intelligence agencies who penetrated the plots were the French CIA and Israel's The Mossad, units of both often working with one another.

Foreign intelligence sources confirm the validity of this story. And they state that they informed the U.S. secret police who absolutely failed, neglected, and outright refused to take action as to known prior specifics of which the top-level of the CIA were informed in advance.

As made known to the CIA, were the following, among other details

[1] That George Herbert Walker Bush, as President, at the close of the Persian Gulf War, 1991, arranged to bring into the U.S. some four thousand Iraqi military officers, some from intelligence units, and their families.

[2] Some 550 of these officers became residents in Lincoln, Nebraska, AND TWO THOUSAND OF THEM took up residence in Oklahoma City. In a watered down story, CBS' "60 Minutes" Program did a segment once on this about Lincoln, Nebraska but said NOTHING about the Iraqi military officers in Oklahoma City.

[3] The financial and other provisions for them and their families were arranged by the Elder Bush, and then quietly continued by Bill Clinton as President, and perpetuated by George W. Bush as White House "resident" and "occupant". The arrangements included financial subsidies, housing, and employment for the Iraqi officers.

[A brave Oklahoma City TV Reporter, Jayna Davis, on their local TV station, put on the air several stories about the Iraqi connection to the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building, the bombing done with the aid of domestic dissidents as surrogates. A group bought out the TV station and silenced her. Timothy McVeigh's chief defense counsel for the murder trial, Stephen Jones, on behalf of McVeigh, filed an extra-ordinary petition in the next higher court, just prior to the murder trial. To no avail, Jones tried to force Denver U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch to compel the American CIA to disgorge records held by them showing prior U.S. knowledge of the bombing, as confirmed by other known records, some of them also in secret court records. We have a copy of the 185 page U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, petition filed by Jones and almost uniformly ignored by the American monopoly press. The petition raises the Iraqi connection.]

[4] The foreign intelligence agencies informed the American CIA that guns would be planted on-board as many as ten U.S. commercial airflights. This to be done by airplane clean-up crew members who are generally not subject to airport security provisions. These workers most likely did not know the purpose of the gun-planting.

[5] The CIA also was informed prior to the "terrorist" attacks scheduled for "911" Emergency Day [September 11], that highly skilled Iraqi pilots, among the four thousand Iraqi officers resident in the U.S., would take over the commercial flights, by retrieving the weapons concealed onboard, and then commandeering the flight deck.

[6] The Elder Bush, Clinton, and George W. Bush, all were in a position to know that the Iraqi officers that they provided for included some double-agents. The FBI Counter-Intelligence Division at no time was instructed to do anything about these double-agents in a position to commit mischief, murder, and mayhem, on U.S. soil.

[7] As I revealed a week prior to the "terrorist" attacks, some foreign television networks were busy preparing lengthy documentaries that would scandalize George W. Bush and other members of the Bush Family, including the Elder Bush and Jeb Bush. The subject matter included how forty million dollars in dope funds were used by the Bush Family to reportedly corrupt South Florida DEMOCRATS to abandon the recount even ahead of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling installing George W. Bush as the "resident" and "occupant" of the White House. The dope funds came reportedly from Bush Family business partner, Carlos Lehder, co-founder of the U.S./Colombia medellin dope cartel. [Visit our website story, "Chandra Levy Affair, Part Two".] I discussed this on radio talk shows.

[8] As part of the targetting of the World Trade Center buildings, a group of surrogates for the Iraqi military officers, reportedly spent considerable time within one of the buildings, with building security officers somehow oblivious of their presence.

[9] As the CIA top officials were informed and had prior knowledge, the purpose of the "terrorist" attacks was to effectively paralyze the financial infrastructure of the U.S. Some of the most important stock and bond houses in the world, with their key people having loads of inside knowledge and hard to replace trading tricks and expertise, were located in the known-to-be-targetted twin towers of the World Trade Center, New York City. It was like blowing up the main "financial factory" and destroying their inventory. The so-called "back-up" records kept parked across the river in New Jersey, are not only inadequate but cannot help reconstruct various accounts and transactions in the works.

Financial experts tell us the "back up" records parked in New Jersey, may NOT be sufficient to re-start the American financial apparatus. Some of the experts are loudly grumbling that they should have early on seen Federal Reserve Czar Alan Greenspan on the television explaining about the financial ramifications. Of course, some suppose that Americans would panic and run out of control. So we are dealt with like little children.

[10] It is a serious mistake, according to savvy American and foreign intelligence sources, to blame the Emergency all on Osama bin Laden. As readers of our website are aware, we have long pointed out that bin Laden is reportedly in the Mid-East Construction business. His reputed partners? The family of Sharon PERCY Rockefeller. She is the wife of John D. Rockefeller 4th (D., W.Va.), great grandson of the founder of the infamous Standard Oil Trust that used to bomb their own obsolete buildings to falsely blame onto their competitors. Bin Laden's so-called "secret" accounts, which the White House has said they would like to freeze, are or have been actually reportedly in the Harris Bank, Chicago, joint accounts with the family of Sharon PERCY Rockefeller.

[11] The Saudi Royal Family actually consists of some five thousand members, some of whom actually are for the U.S. and some anti-U.S. Some of them have bankrolled Iraq's war against Iran, 1980 to 1988, to destroy some oil facilities and keep the price of oil HIGH. The foreign intelligence agencies, that penetrated the plots to be carried out on U.S. soil, are aware that some of the Saudi royals are actually sympathetic to the Iraqis destroying the World Trade Center Buildings and in part, wrecking the Pentagon. [As if the American CIA did not ALREADY have their own knowledge of this.]

Whenever there is a political assassination or some other unusual violent event, what is the key question the oil-soaked, spy-riddled monopoly press ALWAYS fails to ask? WHO BENEFITS. With a scandal about to break against George W. Bush, he and his circle had an interest NOT to stop these things from happening. And to divert attention. The White House has a strong motive to silence critics and urge people TO RALLY AROUND THE PRESIDENT. Simple-minded folks, of course, often poorly informed,do not understand how the ruling classes would shed the blood of thousands if not millions of innocent people, in some instigated war, to avoid dealing with the apparent on-coming economic disasters.

In the midst of this prior-knowledge emergency, who dares now to point to the Bush Family as reputed business partners of the major kingpin, Carlos Lehder, of the U.S./Colombia medellin dope cartel? Or how huge dope money bought the Electoral College trick in Florida and corrupted the U.S. Supreme Court's "gang of five".

This is America's REICHSTAG fire. Adolph Hitler burned down the German parliament and falsely blamed his enemies and had them rounded up and put in the concentration camps. Has the U.S. Constitution now been revoked?

More coming. Stay tuned.
********
There is much, much more proof that it was an inside job, or, if you prefer, known beforehand.

and a few more sites to ignore or read, as you choose:

9/11 - ALLTHE PROOF YOU NEED! - A 9/11 CHECKMATE - Some things are so disturbing that they are almost impossible to believe. That is why, in the 9/11 enigma, less is more. - Until these questions are answered there is no need to establish more doubt. What we have here is solid undisputed evidence that we were never told the truth.

George Bush FAILED us on 9/11
Scroll down for in depth 9/11 info.

On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Dick Cheney was running several war games in the north eastern portion of the United States. These drills included many hijacking scenarios, where hijacked commercial jets were hijacked and flown into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th.

The war games involved live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly included remote control planes.

Cheney was in a position to have the air defense agencies stand down.

From from September 2000 to June 2001, 67 planes steered off course. All 67 times our air defense systems worked as they should, and interceptors were launched. You may remember this happening when Payne Stewart and his crew died in flight. On September 11th, 2001, when Dick Cheney was running his war games, 4 jet airliners were supposedly hijacked, and all our systems that have worked flawlessly 67 times that year, failed. Coincidence?

While these facts seem to incriminate Cheney, all you can do within reason is ask these questions:

Was Cheney in a position to have the defense systems stand down?
Did Cheney, a member of PNAC, a group who expressed the fact that their agenda would be better accepted if we had a "new Pearl Harbor", have a motive? Did he benefit from the events?
Could the events have been an accident? Could the drills have gone bad?
Why did the 9/11 Commission Report omit the information about the drills, making only 1 mention of them in a single footnote. The report only mentioned 1 drill, and falsely described it as a drill to defend against Russian Bombers. In the age of ICBMs, are we to believe that we have to practice defending the nation against Russian bombers in the north eastern portion of the US?
Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney's actions that day?
Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?
If you did not know this information, you have to ask yourself why it is not common knowledge? You also have to ask what else don't you know?
In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.
Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly? Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXPERT: Source: FromtheWilderness.com
Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney

There are 3 major points made within this book that are crucial to proving Cheney's guilt. I shall first list them and then go on to prove each point as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon.

1. Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. (Click here for a summary of these points)

2. Motive - Peak Oil: At some point between 2000 and 2007, world oil production reaches its peak; from that point on, every barrel of oil is going to be harder to find, more expensive to recover, and more valuable to those who recover and control it. Dick Cheney was well aware of the coming Peak Oil crisis at least as early as 1999, and 9/11 provided the pretext for the series of energy wars that Cheney stated, "will not end in our lifetime." (Click here for a summary of these points)

3. Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management. (Click here for a summary of these points)

Full article - click here.

do you smell a rat EnglishM?

here is part of what retired senior oil co geologist Dr colin campbell submitted to the uk govt.

"Geopoliticak consequences

The uneven distribution of conventional oil in Nature is illustrated in Fig 4. Approximately half of what is left to produce lies in the swing countries of the middle east. It is evident that the United States, whose indigenous production has been in decline for thirty years, without hope of reprieve, has a desperate need to secure control of foreign oil. Indeed, access to such oil has long been officially classed as a vital national interest, justifying military intervention where necessary. Whereas in the past such a policy was designed to meet the threat of short politically inspired interruptions, now it faces the iron grip of depletion as the nations of the world vie with each other for critical supplies. Under the principle of globalism, resources anywhere are supposed to be accessible to the highest bidder, but as shortages appear, producing countries may find it expedient to conserve their resources for themselves, further exacerbating the compettion for imports by others in need. The United Kingdom itself is not immune. With flat demand, consumption will exceed production by around 2007, with the percentage of imports set to rise to 20% in 2010, 50% in 2020, and 95% in 2050."

It seems you are determined to believe that the U.S. government knew about the attacks beforehand and allowed them to occur, or that the government conspired to purposely kill thousands of Americans (presumably for oil?).

LOL. Which is it? Apparently it's a "take yer choice" scenario. If you can't convince us that it was an "inside job", then you fall back on "oh, well, they knew about it and did nothing". One word. Absurd.

Another looney lefty drinkin' the KoolAid! You just keep breeding all that hate, dear...see where it gets you

I guess poster Steve and I are just hate breeders. Or truth tellers. You'll have to lay off the kool-aid to make that determination.

Yes, they knew about it and did nothing. Why is that absurd? Didn't you read any of the above articles? Hitler did the same thing. History repeats.

And if it were just me saying all this you could accuse me all you like. But it has come to the attention of most literate people with an investigative, curious mind that something was very amiss on 9/11 - but if you won't read the articles and check sources out for yourself go for it. I don't live in fascist America anymore and I don't have to live in fear every day. Too bad you do, dear.

Steve,

Thank God for BBC and alternative news sources eh? I feel sorry for the Americans who are stuck with CNN, NBC, etc. One-sided news reporting, for sure.

Thanks for the report Colin Campbell submitted. Maybe the kook-aid person will read it. Naw.