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What Really Happened on 9/11?

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Wed 4 Oct, 2006 03:41 pm
I suspect we've stumbled on the explanation for the recent upward trend in the price of bridges.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 4 Oct, 2006 04:08 pm
I would love to see how the answers to xenoche's following questions have a nice knot that ties these answers to an "inside job"
Quote:
Show me a pic of a collapsed building that:

a) Was brought down by fire. (apparently this has never happened).
b) Concrete has been pulverized to dust.
c) A collapsed building that only left behind minimal debris. (when considering the mass of these large objects.
d) A building collapse that literally blew bits of itself into the surrounding buildings.
e) A collapse that lasted no longer than 15 seconds.
f) A collapse that created strange banging noises , BEFORE it began to fall.
g) A collapse that emmited white smoke for weeks after the event.
h) A collapse that left molten metal in the buildings basement.


The floor is open xenoche.

Start with (e) first, Id like to hear your spin.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Wed 4 Oct, 2006 04:28 pm
farmerman wrote:
I would love to see how the answers to xenoche's following questions have a nice knot that ties these answers to an "inside job"
Quote:
Show me a pic of a collapsed building that:

a) Was brought down by fire. (apparently this has never happened).
b) Concrete has been pulverized to dust.
c) A collapsed building that only left behind minimal debris. (when considering the mass of these large objects.
d) A building collapse that literally blew bits of itself into the surrounding buildings.
e) A collapse that lasted no longer than 15 seconds.
f) A collapse that created strange banging noises , BEFORE it began to fall.
g) A collapse that emmited white smoke for weeks after the event.
h) A collapse that left molten metal in the buildings basement.


The floor is open xenoche.

Start with (e) first, Id like to hear your spin.


Hey, thanks to the mod's for unlocking this thread.

From now on can people stop throwing insults at each other.

Back on topic...

Farmerman, you have not answered his questions. You've just fired the questions right back at him. Smile

Great way of avoiding the questions. Where did you learn all these tricks. You must be a scientist rigght ? :wink:
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 4 Oct, 2006 04:33 pm
I dont play that game. If he asked the questions (and they were really just a list of blatherings that have little relationship to proof, so I (or we as a group interested in accurate forensic data) will probably not honor him with any answers.

Lemme see how he does on (e), dont cover for him. Hes the one that brings this **** up.
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Wed 4 Oct, 2006 11:53 pm
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
I dont play that game. If he asked the questions (and they were really just a list of blatherings that have little relationship to proof, so I (or we as a group interested in accurate forensic data) will probably not honor him with any answers.


1. They wer'nt questions they were criterea.
2. All the data is in the previous posts in this thread, apart from the obvious.
3. I mearly asked if someone, ANYONE had any reference to such a strange "collapse" previous to 9/11.
4. The request for a reference to another collapse of this peculiarity was totally rhetorical, because I believe its an immpossiblity. If they didnt collapse due to fire, then what caused it?


With that said, if you "as a group" want MORE evidence, why arnt you looking? Besides, I have a feeling that "your group" has already made thier minds up, good for you.

From where I stand, if thier was the SLIGHTEST chance that the government was involved, I wanna know. If you have even the smallest amout of suspicion, wouldnt you act? Yet most people would just gooble up the **** served to them in the form of a government funded "official" report telling them that for the first time in history a building has collapsed due to fire, not once, but 3 times.

I also believe that bickering on the internet on this subject is hopeless.
The only way is to open an independant investigation to validate the government official investigation.


If you think this action is unreasonable, then you obviously dont find anyones suspicions important. Thus the reason why this thread will continue into infinity until an independant investigation is ordered by the people.

Sorry if I offended anyones ignorance by also calling them a tool.
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 12:42 am
Of course, the Bush administration was complicit in the downing of the towers on 8/11. The first thing any investiagator ever must ask is--Who benefits? It is clear that the Bush Administration and Israel, along with big oil and the banking cartel benefit enormously. Look at the money they have made since 9/11.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 07:47 am
With that said, if you "as a group" want MORE evidence, why arnt you looking? Besides, I have a feeling that "your group" has already made thier minds up, good for you. Illogical. Most of us have peered at the available "conspiracy" data and have independently reached the conclusion that the data is total crap. Much of it is "rehashed" by virtue of being spun through numerous web sites until it appears "washed", much of it is actually FAKE,(Ive taken the time to show how the seismic data was faked and was so admitted by the very owners of the seismic data) The scientists were blown away as how someone could actually take down some data and then booger it up to say other thajn it originally did. Thats dishonest.

The Tritium data is BS also. Anyone in the nuke industry would laugh at how youre being manipulated.

The other (mostly irrelevant) factoids are piled up in succession so as to appear that theres some massive amount of ewvidence available to reinforce a conspiracy. Youre own questions , all of them , prove nothing, they just show your own abominable ignorance of physics and vectors and chemistry.
Guys like you will believe anything .
You should do your own rssearch as to how implosions work and the setup time so that all these charges are interconnected (Somebody would have noticed that cuitter charges (about 3/8" in diameter and looking like yellow power cords all wrapped around posts and through hallways connecting the C compounds to the detonators)
Also, you should learn about "critical mass" to propogate a nuke-thermonuke detonation.
The US DOE has tested many "appliances" which are small devices that were going to be used for tactical weapons. The smallest detonation they could achieve was 10 kilotons. Now dont you think a 10 K explosion would have just blown out the entire mid section of that building ? and thrown debris for miles not 100s of meters. A force vector that resolves a "landslide" feature , is able to chuck debris at least a few 100 yards from the mass wsting but all this is dependent upon internal forces and the heighth of the drop. You can watch the WTC over and over again and I defy you (well somebody competent) to show me the evidence of charges or the "Nuke theory"

You are just trolling for suckers and you get all incensed when we dont buy what yer shoveling.

Also, youre 15 second building drop estimate. Go to aphysics book or geomorphology book and look up dynamics of free falling particles.

Your criteria surely must recognize that , in recent history only 2 building collisions in high towers have happened. This one and the Empire State. The ESB was hit by a considerably slower plane so the Force (which is computed by (Mass) X (velocity squared) was significantly less. That plane barely broke the concrete. AT the WTC, the planes plowed deeply into the buildings The structural steel softened and failed . They have the beams cause they are all numbered like a puzzle. The forensic teams spent months using metallurgists, civil/structural engineers. biologists, architects, and all kinds of crime scene processors. I believe their data and its available for scrutiny, so we dont have to make **** up (like the scholars for truith are).

Because some idiot conspiracists werent asked to be on the forensic teams, they now have to come up with some kakapoopoo about how this was accomplished as a Black Op, by a secret government agency.

I admit that this would make one hell of a story book. If written well, it could be a real page turner. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, the facts you guys are using have mostly been busted as either lies, trumped up, manipulated, or otherwise misunderstod data and evidence.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 09:32 am
Damn Farmerman, I was just about to say the same thing and you beat me too it. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 10:28 am
Xenoche wrote:
Sorry if I offended anyones ignorance by also calling them a tool.


You could never offend my ignorance.
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 09:50 pm
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
Guys like you will believe anything .


Ok, I may have been dooped. But I'm just trying to understand. And my first reaction was to look on the internet, obviously that was a bad move.

Quote:
You are just trolling for suckers and you get all incensed when we dont buy what yer shoveling.


Trolling for suckers? Incensed, hardly. I'm mearly reacting to what ive seen and heard. Again the internets apparent unreliablity shines through.

Quote:
Your criteria surely must recognize that , in recent history only 2 building collisions in high towers have happened. This one and the Empire State. The ESB was hit by a considerably slower plane so the Force (which is computed by (Mass) X (velocity squared) was significantly less. That plane barely broke the concrete. AT the WTC, the planes plowed deeply into the buildings The structural steel softened and failed . They have the beams cause they are all numbered like a puzzle. The forensic teams spent months using metallurgists, civil/structural engineers. biologists, architects, and all kinds of crime scene processors. I believe their data and its available for scrutiny, so we dont have to make **** up (like the scholars for truith are).


What about WTC7? That wasnt hit by a plane. Confused

With all that said, I still, for some reason, feel suspicious. But if all my suspicions were a product of falsified internet information, then I guess I have no reason to. Sounds like i'll just have to be careful with what information I decide to deem truthful.

Living on the otherside of the planet doesnt help ether, I dont get to watch your news and media informing me on whats real.
Not that I even watch TV. Apart from House MD, I love that show. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Thu 5 Oct, 2006 11:56 pm
But, the most important question of all has not been answered and that is who benefited from 9/11? It gave the Republicrats all kinds of cover to militarize the USA and pass abominations like the Patriot Act and then to enable many to call anyone who questions even a little bit an unpatriotic kook. Again, who benefited from 9/11? It wasn't the Democrats!!
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Fri 6 Oct, 2006 01:08 pm
Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11

Written in spring 2005, a modestly language-corrected version Corrected by another person than the original author.

The photographs attached in this non-profit distribution are for securing volatile, important evidence on 9/11 for discussion and education. Author hereby grants full permission to reproduce the drawing 'The Bombs in the WTC' and his writings. You are encouraged to mail, publish and mass produce these documents or your enhanced versions of them. Due to concerns for his personal safety, the author has chosen to remain anonymous.


http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/nuke.gif
Note: This drawing is schematic only. The actual towers were much taller and the observed arch of destruction of the energy-directed thermonuclear device was correspondingly more narrow.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/sor8.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/sor11.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/nuke1.jpg
Storax Sedan 104 Kt shallow underground

In the upper picture the explosion is in theory 100 times stronger than in the picture below, but in practice the difference is only four times due to the capability of direction of the small hydrogen bomb.


http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w.jpg
In the picture at the right, the brown shades caused by a hydrogen bomb are seen, while the top of the tower that is already collapsing is breaking down and the posture straightens up as the hydrogen bomb pulverized the core and it lost all its resistance. The piles point the blasts of the cutting charges.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w1.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w2.jpg
Steel pillars are turned into dust.
Extremely hot, sublimating pieces are not created with many methods.



http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w3.jpg
For comparison, pictures of subterranean nuclear explosions where the explosion is blasting onto surface and into the air:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w4.jpg
Ess1.2 Kt

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w5.jpg
WTC 2

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w6.jpg
Banberry 10 Kt underground

Why did they call it 'groung zero' ?

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/military.htm[/quote]

I have found more evidence which suggests the use of 'nukes'.

First : "Ground zero: The site directly below, directly above, or at the point of detonation of a nuclear weapon."
(Webster's Dictionary of the English Language).

The soil on the island of Manhattan is perfect for building skyscrapers. In midtown Manhattan, BEDROCK is only about 10 feet or 3 meters deep. However, at the location of the Twin Towers in the lower part of Manhattan BEDROCK is about 100 ft or 30 meters deep. There is also the problem of water from New York harbor and the Hudson River. Midtown Manhattan was thus the IDEAL place to build the Twin Towers. When it comes to demolition by nuclear weapons the deeper the foundation the better because depth of soil hides the effects of RADIATION:



Hundreds of weapons of mass destruction have been tested by the Pentagon during the last 50 years. These tests tell them the exact size of the nuke required to knock any building down. Today's nukes are so small that you can carry them in a knapsack.

In the case of the Twin Towers all they had to do was place the bombs directly under the foundations.

In a matter of SECONDS the millions of degrees heat will turn concrete, steel and solid rock into vapor and leave a huge empty space when the foundations stood.

Nuclear explosions have unique seismic signatures!!

All nuclear explosions have unique seismic signatures that are hard to disguise as earthquakes. They are short, sharp tremors that reveal the massive power and speed of the explosion.


Onset of P waves from a Soviet underground nuclear test monitored at a relay station in England.


Seismic waves from the first atomic bomb test at Port Chicago on July 17, 1944.


Seismic signature from the North Tower nuclear explosion.

source

===================

This is really interesting :

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1863/nist27kk.jpg

Because nanometal provides a higher concentration of energy while requiring fewer raw materials, the overall cost of these weapons would drop, according to Kevin Walter, vice president of technical business development at nanometals manufacturer Nanoscale Technologies. The nanometals can be produced in particles as small as 8 nanometers, Walter says, and then combined with other chemicals to create the explosive materials, which can also be used for non-military applications including pyrotechnics and explosives for mining.

Nanotechnology "could completely change the face of weaponry", according to Andy Oppenheimer, a weapons expert with analyst firm and publisher Janes Information Group.

Oppenheimer says nations including the United States, Germany and Russia are developing 'mini-nuke' devices that use nanotechnology to create much smaller nuclear detonators.

Oppenheimer says the devices could fit inside a briefcase and would be powerful enough to destroy a building. Although the devices require nuclear materials, because of their small size "they blur the line with conventional weapons" Oppenheimer says.

The mini-nuke devices are still in the research phase and may be surreptitiously funded since any form of nuclear prolification is "politically contentious" because of the possibility they could fall into the hands of terrorists


MUST WATCH THE VIDEO CLIPS!

Video 1
view of the northeast corner from 6th Avenue
{ Length 0:47 }

Video 2
video of northeast corner moments
before the South Tower collapse
{ Length 2:29 }

The source contains copyrighted material, i've posted this for educational purposes.
====

Related Article :

Quote:
http://deseretnews.com/i/utahmast.gif

Physicist says heat substance felled WTC

Monday, April 10, 2006


Extremely hot fires caused structures to fail, BYU expert says

By Suzanne Dean
For the Deseret Morning News

EPHRAIM -- A Brigham Young University physicist said he now believes an incendiary substance called thermite, bolstered by sulfur, was used to generate exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center on 9/11, causing the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.
"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very clever idea," Steven Jones, professor of physics at BYU, told a meeting of the Utah Academy of Science, Arts and Letters at Snow College Friday.

Continued...
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Fri 6 Oct, 2006 01:20 pm
Like I said.

Im not in America.

Dont care.

Besides, this is the internet, how do I know this is all valid?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:23 pm
Its nothing xenoche. The use of graphics without context is a trick used mostly by hucksters.
Im familiar with the SEDAN test fire at nevada Test SIte. That was a test used for the "peaceful atom" program. Iwas about 8 years old in 1958 and That area is still contaminated by radioactivity many decades after the shot. Where is the nuclear contamination and the long lived trigger transuranic isotopes at the WTC? They dont exist.

Try to explain what this "Finnish expert" is attempting to blow up our asses. Some people are easily impressed with pretty puictures, so far theres no real data he presents about anythging other than , when dropped freom a great heighth, things fall downward and , due to internal angles of freiction of the density cloud, they also vector outward. DUHH
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 6 Oct, 2006 10:17 pm
farmerman wrote:
Its nothing xenoche. The use of graphics without context is a trick used mostly by hucksters.
Im familiar with the SEDAN test fire at nevada Test SIte. That was a test used for the "peaceful atom" program. Iwas about 8 years old in 1958 and That area is still contaminated by radioactivity many decades after the shot. Where is the nuclear contamination and the long lived trigger transuranic isotopes at the WTC? They dont exist.


That's because the deep foundation of the WTC towers' soil hides the effects of radiation:

The Finnish Military Expert wrote:
The soil on the island of Manhattan is perfect for building skyscrapers. In midtown Manhattan, BEDROCK is only about 10 feet or 3 meters deep. However, at the location of the Twin Towers in the lower part of Manhattan BEDROCK is about 100 ft or 30 meters deep. There is also the problem of water from New York harbor and the Hudson River. Midtown Manhattan was thus the IDEAL place to build the Twin Towers. When it comes to demolition by nuclear weapons the deeper the foundation the better because depth of soil hides the effects of RADIATION:


So, that explains that, huh?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sat 7 Oct, 2006 01:24 am
It is all beginning to come clear to me too, Ticomaya, thanks to the absolutely brilliant research and graphics posted here by the obviously learned and world class scholar named Zippo. I am absolutely amazed at the stupendous talent that has so unselfishly devoted just a little of their undoubtedly valuable time to help some of us here to understand really what happened on 9/11.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 7 Oct, 2006 04:28 am
Tico, if the Manhattan SChists and the Forham Formations could absorb the radiation, then someone has found a way to keep ground water from becoming contaminated.

Thats the problem with the internet. In the process of saying a lot about a subject, it says nothing relevant. That thing that zippo posted was about the most meaningless POC that Ive seen. You can assert things , but without evidence youve got nothing.


10000 cutter charges and no Evidence of PETN or RDX or anything used for connections. Usually the detonation chords connect the cutter charges. Did somebody notice these yellow plastic tubes travelling all over the buildings.


Again the seismic data they present shows no "pattern of a bomb" It shows the propogation of a series of seismic waves coupled in air and in ground. The arreival of "P waves" is irrelevant, and the fact that signals are displaved by distance is merely attesting to the old 4th grade formula that


(TIME( X (RATE)= DISTANCE


again a well earned DUHH for Zippoman, master of the obvious.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Thu 12 Oct, 2006 10:37 pm
South Park takes on the 9/11 Truthers:

Part 1
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3987/2jh3.jpg

Part 2
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1848/2em4.jpg

Part 3
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2886/2cg9.jpg
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Fri 13 Oct, 2006 12:24 am
Laughing
That was entertaining.

However, what it has to do with anything.

Southpark takes on anything and everything, so its not at all suprising that they spoof conspiricy theorists of 9/11.

farmerman, can you post your evidence (just a request, If you cant be bothered, dont worry) supporting your argument?

I still cant convince myself that thier isnt something fishy about 9/11. Confused
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Oct, 2006 03:59 am
xenoche. Im not sure what "evidence " you want me to present. Its common knowledge that our instrumentation is sensitive enough to catch any very tiny differences between background radiation and any from a thermonuclear blast.
The type of radiation that was noted in the areas around WTC were from "EXIT SIGNS", . This is indesputable. Im not inclined to go look that up. You can find the deep web as a source of all the supporting monitoring data at the WTC. Nobody has tried to hide anything. In fact, having the data on the web is a standard operating procedure for the DEC.

There was no evidence of any explosive chemicals (usually nitrogen compounds) nor any evidence of nuclear explosions. No evidence at all, and this area was monitored 24 hours, 7 days for months shortly after and extending into December 2001. They did find that stuff like oxidized organics , consistent with fuels and burning platics and paper were quite common.

The types of rad contamination was specifically beta and was associated with Tritium Exit signs. (Think about the thousands of exit signs in the buildings along with the 20 or so on each plane)

Ive analyzed data from landfills where radioactivity in the leachate collection systems were found and the sources were conclusively from tritium signs.

This is a non-issue in which the "conspiracists" are again lying about and manipulating the facts to fit their fevered minds.
0 Replies
 
 

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