"I COULD care less" or "I COULDN'T care less" Which is it?

@Cyracuz,

Quote:

But am I wrong in saying that the origin of this way of speaking is the lower educated people?

This points to the problem. Less education doesn't equate to being less knowledgeable about how to use language. Some of the most educated of all are the ones who have so poorly analysed language over the centuries.

Most language change has indeed come from the lower classes. This is the same language change that the "well educated" resists, all to no avail.

In a study, the linguist, William Labov found the greatest number of grammatical errors among those with the highest education.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

J, from what u write,
it appears that u have NO idea of what proof consists.
I am not discussing other languages, and I care nothing for them.
I am speaking English.

The "logic" you seek to apply would have to be universal. It can't be that there is an outside rule that applies only to one language.

Almost every sentence you write provides ample proof that you know nothing of how language works, that all you do is read some nonsense about language and absorb it like a sponge.

You state this absurd notion that when a speaker use double negation, it means means a positive. [for the record, sometimes it does] You maintain this ludicrous position even when there's no factual support for it.

I suppose you could be dumber when it comes to language.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I have no respect for your ad hominem foolishness. I reject it out of hand.

It's not ad hominem, Dave, it's simply the truth. When a guy who supposedly is bright enough to get thru law school, to get invited into mensa tells people that he misunderstands a sizeable portion of the English language, it's clear that that is incompetence in language.

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@kickycan,

couldn't

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@kickycan,

I say Couldn't

1 Reply

@ukchristianlouboutin,

ukchristianlouboutin wrote:

I say Couldn't

u and munickat
r both right!
Both of u can reason accurately.
WELCOME to the forum!

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

u and munickat r both right!

The last person, UK Christian, certainly is accurate given that he/she seems to be of the BrE variety. The other person is mistaken if their reply is a direct response to Kickycan's original question,

"I COULD care less" or "I COULDN'T care less" Which is it?

"couldn't" is a choice, not a requirement.

Quote:

Both of u can reason accurately.

But you most certainly can't, Om. But this revelation is nothing new for most A2Kers.

Just the two examples You know squat about language. and You don't know squat about language. illustrate your ignorance.

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Here's what happened:

There was the expression; I couldn't care less. It means "it is not possible for me to care less because I care not at all".

Then various journalists, bloggers, news anchors and other people who write for the public got the phrase wrong, saying "I could care less", which actually means the complete opposite!
These people are idiots who should not be let anywhere near a public media. But alas! they were allowed to run rampant until their moronic error became so wide spread that "I could care less" is now considered an idiom.
But bear this in mind: Anyone inclined to use the phrase "I could care less" are lingual degenerates who can't spend two seconds on thinking about what they actually write, and they all contribute to degenerate the preciseness of language.

End of story.
And if you feel inclined to defend the use of "I could care less", then yes, I just wrote about you.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

Here's what happened.

Is this a first person report? You really don't know what happened. And obviously, you are not up to speed on how changes occur in language.

It really doesn't matter how it developed, Cyracuz. It was a completely normal development that followed other similar developments in English.

The people who are idiots are the ones that deny the plain facts that stare them full in the face. You seem particularly determined to illustrate just that.

Quote:

saying "I could care less", which actually means the complete opposite!

See what I mean. You've even got this wrong.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Here's what happened:

There was the expression; I couldn't care less.
It means "it is not possible for me to care less because I care not at all".

YES. I clearly remember that.
There is no room for doubt.

Cyracuz wrote:

Then various journalists, bloggers, news anchors and other people who write for the public
got the phrase wrong, saying "I could care less", which actually means the complete opposite!

That is true (except the bloggers; thay did not yet exist).

Cyracuz wrote:

These people are idiots who should not be let anywhere near a public media.

Shud that be a public medium?
Tho thay fell into confusion,
I 'm pretty sure that their mental ages exceeded 3 years.

Cyracuz wrote:

But alas! they were allowed to run rampant until their moronic error
became so wide spread that "I could care less"
is now considered an idiom.

Yes; I guess that is an example of entropy;
energy working toward disorganization.

Cyracuz wrote:

But bear this in mind: Anyone inclined to use the phrase
"I could care less" are lingual degenerates

That 's true. Thay support degeneration of the logic of English grammar.
That is indicative of defective reasoning and of low standards qua precise logic.
When I was hiring for my law firm, in another century,
I observed applicants' accurate use of English grammar,
as a criterion of their mental acuity. I discriminated on the basis of accurate use of logic.

I wanted to hire attorneys and support staff who had GOOD native senses of logic.
I wanted to hire people whose minds were worthy of respect.

From the want ads that I ran in the newspapers
there were always many more applicants than I cud use.
For about maybe 7 available jobs, around 4OO resumes, on average, arrived in the mail.
I needed to weed out sloppy thinkers.

Cyracuz wrote:

who can't spend two seconds on thinking about what they actually write,
and they all contribute to degenerate the preciseness of language.

Your points r well taken. Well said!!!

Cyracuz wrote:

End of story.
And if you feel inclined to defend the use of "I could care less",
then yes, I just wrote about you.

Well, JTT has shown very poor organization of his thoughts,
with possible delusions, but he 's also shown a mental age in excess of 3 years.
He 'd not likely be able to type, below that mental age.

David

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

The people who are idiots are the ones that deny the plain facts that stare them full in the face.

You mean such as the plain fact that "I could care less" means the exact opposite of what it's users intend to communicate? It doesn't get more in your face than that.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

It would seem we are in agreement. And regarding your criteria for working at your firm in that other century, good call. I also see the inability to express oneself clearly and accurately as a sign of poorly developed reasoning skills.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

You mean such as the plain fact that "I could care less" means the exact opposite of what it's users intend to communicate? It doesn't get more in your face than that.

You simply don't understand how modals work, C.

I might go is not the opposite of I might not go.

He might have gone is not the opposite of He might not have gone.

I couldn't care less is not the opposite of I could care less.

If you are of the BrE persuasion, then it might not make sense to you, but it makes sense to North Americans. There are some who pretend different, like OmSig because he is under the false impression that the nonsense he was taught is an actual rule of the English language.

Studies show that far more people, of all ages, use "S could care less" than "S couldn't care less".

It's a done deal. It's an idiom that has been set solid for AmE and CdE. It's also making headway into BrE. Ya just can't stop the natural progression of language.

Those who think they can, from some misguided ideas, are going to be as successful as all the prescriptivists have ever been. The reason they are never successful is because they can't fight the inherent logic found in language.

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@JTT,

Quote:

You mean such as the plain fact that "I could care less" means
the exact opposite of what it's users intend to communicate?
It doesn't get more in your face than that.

JTT wrote:

You simply don't understand how modals work, C.

I might go is not the opposite of I might not go.

He might have gone is not the opposite of He might not have gone.

I couldn't care less is not the opposite of I could care less.

Your assertions r false, J.
Thay r incorrectly reasoned.

JTT wrote:

If you are of the BrE persuasion, then it might not make sense to you,
but it makes sense to North Americans.

not to THIS North American

not to a lot of OTHER North Americans

JTT wrote:

There are some who pretend different, like OmSig because he is under the false impression
that the nonsense he was taught is an actual rule of the English language.

No. J. misrepresents my position in this matter.
Its not that I care much about "an actual rule of the English language" that I learned.
Rather, I am guided by the mathematical logic underlying most (not all) of English grammar.
I know that man rose to the top of the food chain and landed on the Moon
by the accurate use of logic. I wish to continue doing so.

JTT wrote:

Studies show that far more people, of all ages, use "S could care less" than "S couldn't care less".

Assuming, for the moment, that J. is correct on that point,
such knowledge is devoid of value because it involves an error
of logic, whose use only serves to exclude users thereof from consideration for
positions that require respect for the accurate functioning of their reasoning abilities.
People get into bar brawls and into drunken driving too,
but that does not justify doing it some more, now or in the future.
When people make stupid mistakes (such as what J. mentioned),
that does not justify them, nor other people, in making MORE stupid mistakes.

JTT wrote:

It's a done deal. It's an idiom that has been set solid for AmE and CdE. It's also making headway into BrE. Ya just can't stop the natural progression of language.

We can & we will,
simply by exposing the folly thereof.

JTT wrote:

Those who think they can, from some misguided ideas, are going to be as successful as all the prescriptivists have ever been. The reason they are never successful is because they can't fight the inherent logic found in language.

That statement implies an oxymoronic use of "logic".

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Again, surprise, surprise, absolutely nothing from Mr Know Nothing. How do you propose to keep fighting this when you offer nothing but your tired old tales.

Quote:

because it involves an error of logic,

Don't just keep mouthing inanities, Sig. You never explain anything. Your "logic" has been shown to be nothing but illogic.

1 Reply

@JTT,

maybe in your hallucinations

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

If you are of the BrE persuasion, then it might not make sense to you, but it makes sense to North Americans.

Pardon the expression, but that is bullshit.

Saying might and might not amounts to maybe. There are subtle differences, but the meaning is the same. You might or you might not be there/ go there/ do that thing... etc.

But that cannot be compared to could/ couldn't.

By your reasoning I could lift it means the same as I couldn't lift it. Clearly wrong.

An idiom is one thing, but when an expression is misunderstood to such a degree as the one we are discussing here, and becomes an idiom for that reason, it's just stupid.

You can try to rationalize the use of "could care less" all you want. Your examples here are clearly irrelevant, as they do not touch on the issue at hand. They just serve to display your lack of understanding of language.

Quote:

It's a done deal. It's an idiom that has been set solid for AmE and CdE. It's also making headway into BrE. Ya just can't stop the natural progression of language.

You might not know this if you live in the US, but education isn't exactly one the strong points of that country, where the government is more interested in docile, fearful idiots who are easily controlled than independent, informed individuals. To most Europeans it is becoming very clear that the USA is a fascist state masquerading as a democracy, but that is beside the point of this thread.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Quote:

If you are of the BrE persuasion, then it might not make sense to you, but it makes sense to North Americans.

Quote:

Pardon the expression, but that is bullshit.

Quote:

MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD COULD CARE LESS

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001209.html

Quote:

You might not know this if you live in the US, but education isn't exactly one the strong points of that country, where the government is more interested in docile, fearful idiots who are easily controlled than independent, informed individuals.

You're not telling me anything new, C.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I don’t know why people who set themselves up as authorities, like OmSig including some editors, don’t bother to look at actual reference works on usage, but instead just pour out their personal tastes, largely based on dimly remembered bits of lore they picked up in school. Why no glance at all at MWDEU, which has thoughtful, and scholarly, discussions of almost all of the points on Gingerich’s list? Instead, we get blinkered pig-ignorance.

http://arnoldzwicky.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/on-the-garmmra-watch/

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

You're not telling me anything new, C.

Good to hear. Smile

But regarding the phrase in question, even if "negation by association" ends up with most of the world using the phrase "could care less", that doesn't change the fact that it is logically messed up. I've never been one to follow the crowd off a cliff.
According to this, if the majority of the worlds population decided that 2+2=5, that would be correct.

2 Replies

"I COULD care less" or "I COULDN'T care less" Which is it?

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