28
   

"I COULD care less" or "I COULDN'T care less" Which is it?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 04:57 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


How about "I couldn't stare less"?


Or, 'I couldn't ******* swear less.'
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 05:03 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
A lot of people over here use double negatives. I didn't do nothing, we don't have no tomatoes. Would that class as an example?


I guess it would.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but isn't that a phenomenon that comes from people of lower education? Do you not agree that it degenerates peoples understanding of the logic which is the foundation of grammar?


I think I answered that previously. The motivation is emotional, not logical, which I would argue is equally important. You could also argue the Standard English is spoken by the middle classes, and dialect more working class. It doesn't necessarily follow that they're all the product of below par education.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 05:14 pm
@izzythepush,
Yes, you answered that. But am I wrong in saying that the origin of this way of speaking is the lower educated people?

But this is beside the point of "could/couldn't care less". Those two phrases mean the opposite, and not because of double negatives.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 05:26 pm
@Cyracuz,
There is some truth in what you're saying, but it's not absolute.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 07:27 pm
@Cyracuz,
No, Cyracuz. You only serve to highlight your ignorance. The idiom 'could care less' means the same as "couldn't care less". They both entail that there is no caring when a sad/despondent person seeks

Quote:
It means "I care to such an extend that it is possible for me to care less"


One can't care to an "extend".

Quote:
"I couldn't care less", on the other hand means "I do not care at all, it is not possible for me to care less about this because I do not care".


The idiom, "I could care less", on the other hand means "I suppose there's a possibility that I could care less if I didn't already not care at all".
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 07:32 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
What the hell is a bonker????


Aren't you the worldly one. And a mensan too, not to mention an ex lawyer.

Quote:
I know not to what ignorance u refer.


The ignorance you show even when you are given a clear explanation of how language works. Read the whole of Professor Pullum's discussion [you have the link]. If you can't mentally digest the material, I recommend that you give up you membership in Mensa.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 07:44 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
What the hell is a bonker????



http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/39/285x214/59960_1.jpg

'I'm just organising a bonk now.'
Its been a while since I 've seen one of those cigarette holders.
Thay were popular in the 1930s n 40s.
Maybe a bonker is an English bunker ?
I know what a bunker is.
I coud ask my English grandfather,
if he were not as dead as he is.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 07:56 pm
@JTT,
David wrote:
What the hell is a bonker????
JTT wrote:
Aren't you the worldly one. And a mensan too, not to mention an ex lawyer.
Thay did not teach us of "bonkers" in law school.

David wrote:
I know not to what ignorance u refer.
JTT wrote:
The ignorance you show even when you are given a clear explanation of how language works. Read the whole of Professor Pullum's discussion [you have the link].
I already addressed it and found it to be emotion-based and devoid of merit.

Enuf is enuf.

I cannot be expected to accept defective reasoning as
what u characterize as an "explanation".



JTT wrote:
If you can't mentally digest the material, I recommend that you give up you membership in Mensa.
J, if the day arrives when I begin to accept YOUR recommendations, then I WILL give up my membership in Mensa !

Until then, I 'll just continue to have a good time.
I "RECOMMEND" that u do likewise.





David
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2011 08:42 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Thay did not teach us of "bonkers" in law school.


Considering that the sum total of OmSigD is what you learned in law school, it becomes clear why you are such a shallow thinker.


Quote:
I already addressed it and found it to be emotion-based and devoid of merit.


You addressed it not at all. But that's just your way.

Let me make it simple for you.

Step 1: There are phrases in English that hold meanings that cannot be discerned from their dictionary meanings. These are called idioms. One such idiom is 'could care less'. Every English speaker on the planet knows what it means when used in NaE dialects.

I've given you a number of examples where the obvious meaning does not always hold. This particular idiom, 'could care less', is just one more example of a phrase that has developed into an English idiom, with its own idiomatic meaning.

Quote:
I cannot be expected to accept defective reasoning


You are Mr Defective Reasoning in most everything you utter about language. One excellent example: you maintain that English must follow the rules of math - now that's truly defective reasoning. In fact, there is no reasoning at all because even you, Mr Defective Reasoning, knows that a double negative, [which actually isn't a double negative at all - but I don't expect you to be able to grasp that] doesn't mean a positive.

By the same token, you also know that when someone says, "Om, I could care less what you think", that they are suggesting that they do care what you think.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 03:28 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Clearly being able to work out the flaming obvious is not a requirement for Mensa membership. I couldn't make it any easier, but you still don't pick up on it.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 07:02 am
@JTT,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20could%20care%20less

The 2nd definition is of special relevance here.:

"an expression that idiots use when they don't care about something or have no interest in something. what they really mean is "i couldn't care less"

john: this video game is so good. i could play it forever
jim: i could care less. i hate video games.
john: wait, so you could care less.... that means that you care somewhat. you mean "i couldn't care less"?
jim: what? no. i don't give a **** about your dumb video game.
john: you're a ******* retard."



Here's another:
http://dictionary1.classic.reference.com/help/faq/language/g09.html

"I could care less"- an idiom for idiots who got the original phrase wrong. I'll tell you the same as I sometimes tell christians. Just because there are millions of you who believe it's right don't make it so.

By the way, the last link uses the example "Tell me about it" as meaning "don't tell me about it". But doesn't that phrase have a meaning which is more along the lines of "I can relate to what you're saying"?
JTT
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 10:52 am
@Cyracuz,
Yup, you really know a great deal about language, Cy. I suggest The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language to you and you rely on ninedots and zach the sack for information.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 11:29 am
@JTT,
David wrote:
Thay did not teach us of "bonkers" in law school.
JTT wrote:
Considering that the sum total of OmSigD is what you learned in law school, [?????]
it becomes clear why you are such a shallow thinker.
According to your reasoning, I did not exist b4 I entered law school.
Have u EVIDENCE of your premise?????
It is an unsupported assumption. FOOLISHNESS
It serves only to impugn the quality of your reasoning, J.
We might have hoped for better than that.




David wrote:
I already addressed it and found it to be emotion-based and devoid of merit.
JTT wrote:
You addressed it not at all. But that's just your way.
It appears that u did not READ my post.

JTT wrote:
Let me make it simple for you.

Step 1: There are phrases in English that hold meanings
that cannot be discerned from their dictionary meanings.
These are called idioms.
To the extent that thay vary
from ordinary use, thay deserve neither recognition nor respect.
I accord them NEITHER. That is good and competent logic.





JTT wrote:
One such idiom is 'could care less'.

It means what the words literally MEAN, regardless
of any "idiom". A man can and (logically shoud)
refuse to speculate regarding another man's secret thoughts
and hold him responsible for the literal meaning of his words.





JTT wrote:
Every English speaker on the planet knows what it means when used in NaE dialects.
I re-iterate that no one
is bound to know the secret thoughts nor emotions of anyone else,
regardless of any "idiom" (in which I refuse to take any interest).
The words mean what thay SAY,
and I will hold anyone and everyone responsible for his chosen words,
INCLUDING every time I sit on a jury in court.






JTT wrote:
I've given you a number of examples where the obvious meaning
does not always hold. This particular idiom, 'could care less',
is just one more example of a phrase that has developed into
an English idiom, with its own idiomatic meaning.
Such is the same as the babbling of a baby, with as much meaning.




David wrote:
I cannot be expected to accept defective reasoning
JTT wrote:
You are Mr Defective Reasoning in most everything you utter about language.
I reject your characterization.






JTT wrote:
One excellent example: you maintain that English must follow the rules of math
I certainly DO. YES!



JTT wrote:
- now that's truly defective reasoning.
I recognize the folly of your denial.
I suspect that it is based only on your emotions.




JTT wrote:
In fact, there is no reasoning at all because even you, Mr Defective Reasoning, knows
HAY: don 't tell me what I know; u r not a telepath.



JTT wrote:
that a double negative, [which actually isn't a double negative at all - but I don't
expect you to be able to grasp that [ naked ad hominem ] doesn't mean a positive.
Nonsense; I challenge your assertion.

Denying that we have no tomatos is asserting their possession.







JTT wrote:
By the same token, you also know that when someone says,
"Om, I could care less what you think", that they are suggesting that they do care what you think.
YES; if he cares with TREMENDOUS INTENSITY about what someone thinks,
then it is possible for him to care LESS than that.
JTT
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:07 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
One excellent example: you maintain that English must follow the rules of math


Quote:
OmSig: I certainly DO. YES!


If that was true, then it would follow for every language. It doesn't. You have been proven wrong once again.

Quote:
A fully competent speaker of English knows how to work out the meaning of both 'I am unable to obtain any satisfaction' and 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction',


You're clearly not a competent speaker of English, Dave.

Quote:
A person who cannot understand Mick Jagger's lyrics, even if they are written out on a sheet of paper (nobody can understand much of it when he's singing, of course, is not a better English speaker, but a worse one.



With such clear incompetence, you obviously cheated many a client.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:11 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

You're clearly not a competent speaker of English, Dave.


I don't think Dave has ever tried to hide that fact.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:11 pm
@JTT,
You just don't get what I am saying...

"Could care less" is wrong. Logically it makes no sense. I get what you say, that a few generations of retards have used it so much that it is now generally understood that when people use the phrase they actually mean "couldn't care less". Those people then proceeded to call it an idiom in defense against people who called them idiots.

The correctness of "could care less" that you are insisting on isn't a matter of grammar or logic, because when these are applied to the phrase it is blatantly obvious that it is nonsense. It's a matter of cultural dispositions and a general lack of desire to express oneself precisely and correctly.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:14 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Those people then proceeded to call it an idiom in defense against people who called them idiots.


The people who call it idiom aren't idiots. Idiots don't know what idiom is. Well done, that's a really good way to distinguish between the two.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:47 pm
@JTT,
I think we all know the sort of lawyer David was.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 01:08 pm
@JTT,
David wrote:
One excellent example: you maintain that English must follow the rules of math


Quote:
OmSig: I certainly DO. YES!
JTT wrote:
If that was true, then it would follow for every language. It doesn't. You have been proven wrong once again.
J, from what u write,
it appears that u have NO idea of what proof consists.
I am not discussing other languages, and I care nothing for them.
I am speaking English.




Quote:
A fully competent speaker of English knows how to work out the meaning of both 'I am unable to obtain any satisfaction' and 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction',


Quote:
You're clearly not a competent speaker of English, Dave.
I have no respect for your ad hominem foolishness. I reject it out of hand.






Quote:
A person who cannot understand Mick Jagger's lyrics, even if they are written out on a sheet of paper (nobody can understand much of it when he's singing, of course, is not a better English speaker, but a worse one.



JTT wrote:
With such clear incompetence, you obviously cheated many a client.
J, it pains me to lower myself to offering
ad hominem remarks, or counter-ad hominem remarks,
but the disorder of your mind and your manifested halluciations
concerning my professional successes are not suitable for discourse.

I feel as tho I am conversing with a clown. Its pointless.

I don 't approach A2K for such nonsense.
I 'm considering the possibility of putting u back on Ignore
to save myself from your wasting my time with your babbling.





David
JTT
 
  1  
Fri 12 Aug, 2011 01:30 pm
@Cyracuz,
I understand "your" reasoning, C, I have since the beginning. It's just that I don't put any stock in it. {Does that idiom make any sense? Did I put stock in it?]

Quote:
"Could care less" is wrong. Logically it makes no sense.


No, we know that it isn't wrong. It's used in NaE dialects with much greater frequency than "couldn't care less".

It makes perfect sense because we - that means everyone of us, even those like you who have read some idiot grammar maven in some newspaper column, and now repeats the nonsense - knows exactly what it means, again, for NaE.

Quote:
Those people then proceeded to call it an idiom in defense against people who called them idiots.


From the outset, while you've been trying to deny it, you've been describing the very definition of 'idiom', using 'could care less' as a perfect example of that definition of 'idiom'.

Quote:
The correctness of "could care less" that you are insisting on isn't a matter of grammar or logic, because when these are applied to the phrase it is blatantly obvious that it is nonsense. It's a matter of cultural dispositions and a general lack of desire to express oneself precisely and correctly.


Yet you, this fount of grammatical logic and wisdom use 'you' as a singular, with the plural verb 'are', with not a squawk. Language makes its own logic and it can do without all the idiots who simply repeat the nonsense of some other idiot that they've read.

You, this fount of grammatical logic and wisdom, likely use any number of idioms that are not logical. Hey, have you cottoned on to the fact that that is the very definition of an idiom?

This has been the problem with prescriptivism from the outset. Poor thinking applied to some language issue. Instead of thoughtful study, it's just a repeat of the same old nonsense, recycled time and again.

Read:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/giveadamn.html
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

deal - Question by WBYeats
Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Please, I need help. - Question by imsak
Is this sentence grammatically correct? - Question by Sydney-Strock
"come from" - Question by mcook
concentrated - Question by WBYeats
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 04/18/2025 at 02:01:36