Never was a fan of stars wars (had to look up Aniken Skywalker to even know who he is) so I don't know the lesson. Care to elaborate for the star wars illiterate among us? (unless I am the only one)
My daughter has a saying she half heartedly jokes about and I agree with her, her definition of a worse date is a movie at star wars and chinese food.
Aniken is a noble jedi warrior who embraces the dark side and becomes rechristaned "Darth Vader"
Just a play on the post telling of fallen angels.
Well, MOAN, that's a typical performance on your part. You couldn't think straight if your life depended upon it.
As i have pointed out, i am only an atheist to the extent that other put the label on me.
In the first link you posted, this is what i wrote: "But i also despise the individual fanatics of this world, and that includes fanatical atheists. I am atheist in the simplest meaning of the word--in that i am without god. It is a definition placed on me, however, by others, because it is meaningless for me and my view of the universe."--and i point out there that the title is placed on me by others.
In the second link, i state that i am an atheist--but only after Francisco D'Anconia has put the label on me--to which i respond.
The third and fourth links you post are identical--are you so dim-witted as to think it makes your point more forcefully to post the same link twice? Are you so devoid of anyting resembling a sense of humor that you don't understand the irony of my statement in the link you post? I wrote: "Well, all i can say is thank God i'm an atheist."
As i've already pointed out, i'm only an atheist to the extent that others put the label on me. I don't promote atheism, i don't claim that i have any proof that there is no god, i don't give a rat's ass whether or not your imaginary friend exists.
And that is what this is all about at base. Your imaginary friend superstition has been described as a superstition, but you claim it is "faith" and that "faith" is something other than, something better than superstition--but you can't demonstrate as much. You peddle your imaginary friend superstition, and then show your @ss by wandering these threads asserting the superiority of your point of view. But when cornered, all we get out of you is "well, that's just what i believe," and "i have faith."
You have faith in an egregious example of idiotic, unexamined superstition.
talk72000 Wrote:
Quote:Religious belief is not rooted in tests and repeatability. The religionists sound like used-car salesmen. They will not face up to contradictions in the bobble nor plain statements that show their foundation is faulty or even non-existent. All they have are made-up statements of half truths and anyone straying one bit from it are labelled heretics, apostates, anti-christs, pagans, infidels thus targeting them for violence. They cannot stand criticism and they view statements that are in stark contrast to their views as harsh and hostile when it is merely merely a debate or a skepticism. They appear thin-skinned no wonder they want their views mandated and forced on everyone as their views cannot stand up to any form of review.
This is a joke, right? Who has called you or anyone else on these threads heretic, apostate, anti-christ, pagan, or infidel and thus targeting them for violence?
Actually talk72000, when we try to explain a perceived contradiction, we are scoffed at. You have painted with a pretty wide brush here. It seems you lump every Christian in the world into this one category. And likening anyone to a used-car salesman is never (IMO) taken as anything but an insult. And actually, I know some pretty nice used car salesmen.
"We?" You're using the royal pejorative? You speak for all adherents to the imaginary friend superstition?
You're a piece of wrok.
Mr. Setanta Wrote:
Quote:Well, MOAN, that's a typical performance on your part. You couldn't think straight if your life depended upon it.
As i have pointed out, i am only an atheist to the extent that other put the label on me.
In the first link you posted, this is what i wrote: "But i also despise the individual fanatics of this world, and that includes fanatical atheists. I am atheist in the simplest meaning of the word--in that i am without god. It is a definition placed on me, however, by others, because it is meaningless for me and my view of the universe."--and i point out there that the title is placed on me by others.
In the second link, i state that i am an atheist--but only after Francisco D'Anconia has put the label on me--to which i respond.
The third and fourth links you post are identical--are you so dim-witted as to think it makes your point more forcefully to post the same link twice? Are you so devoid of anyting resembling a sense of humor that you don't understand the irony of my statement in the link you post? I wrote: "Well, all i can say is thank God i'm an atheist."
As i've already pointed out, i'm only an atheist to the extent that others put the label on me. I don't promote atheism, i don't claim that i have any proof that there is no god, i don't give a rat's ass whether or not your imaginary friend exists.
And that is what this is all about at base. Your imaginary friend superstition has been described as a superstition, but you claim it is "faith" and that "faith" is something other than, something better than superstition--but you can't demonstrate as much. You peddle your imaginary friend superstition, and then show your @ss by wandering these threads asserting the superiority of your point of view. But when cornered, all we get out of you is "well, that's just what i believe," and "i have faith."
You have faith in an egregious example of idiotic, unexamined superstition.
You made the statement that you never said you were an atheist, correct? Well, you have made the statement you are an atheist. Tell you what, let's just take one example, shall we?
I do not see anything qualifying that such as ..."because others label me so." Do you?
So what? Just admit it. You said it! The world won't end if you say you made a mistake.
You called me a big mouth because you obviously thought I was making something up. I wasn't. Those are your words.
Mr. Setanta Wrote:
Quote:"We?" You're using the royal pejorative? You speak for all adherents to the imaginary friend superstition?
You're a piece of wrok.
First, I don't know what a wrok is. And I was speaking for other Christians on here yes, because they have tried to explain the perceived contradictions and were scoffed at. Shall I find the proof of that also?
Oh, and here is another piece of proof about you saying you are an atheist:
Mr. Setanta Wrote:
Would you care to point out in that statement where it says "because others have labeled me so?"
All it takes is a simple I made a mistake, Setanta. That's all. What's the big deal?
You demand proof. You got your proof. Then you try to justify it. Why is that? :wink:
timberlandko wrote:neologist wrote:timberlandko wrote: ... here's a challenge for you; validy differentiate between "Faith" and "Superstition". Mind you, that "
VALIDLY" qualifier is the kicker; you may not use theistic doctrine, dogma, or canon to do so, as to employ such perforce entails the fallacy of
petitio principii, thereby insurmountably invalidating any argument thus based.
You guys are having all the fun. Can I get in here?
'Course, all I can do is point in a reasonable direction.
I would use the description of faith provided by Paul in Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld" ...
I submit that faith will stand up to the above scrutiny while superstition will not.
I submit that response in no way meets, let alone satisfies the challenge at issue. Lets take a look at that Matthew reference, Neo, not rejecting it out-of-hand (even though you base your argument on the canon of the proposition you seek to support
) -
[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:7-8&version=9;]Matthew 7: 7-8[/url] wrote: (KJV)
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
I submit I do "ask", yet do not "receive" that which putatively is alledged to be there for all "that seeketh", I submit that I "knock", yet nothing is "opened" to me; I am met only with hollow echoes, both from The Scriptures and from the proponents of same. I refer you further to Matthew 7 again:
[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:20;&version=9;]Matthew 7: 20[/url] wrote: (KJV)
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
One may gather only the fruits one encounters.
The topic was locked when I wanted to make this timely reply.
WHY? I ask.
Note to moderators: Indigestion is not a good reason to lock a thread.
And we all know who had the gas. . . Harrumph!
Now Timber;
I submit that a more accurate translation of Matthew 7:7 is 'keep on asking'. This would be in keeping with Solomon's words at Proverbs 2:4 ". . .if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it. . ."
Remember that Jesus was reported to have said at Matthew 11:25: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes."
Catch you later, my fine feathered friend.
Setanta wrote: You're a piece of wrok.
You think he's a piece. You should have met Joe's friend from up in Skagit County. He lived on the road between Rockport and Marblemount. Hardest head I've ever seen.
Nice fellow, though. Kinda like you Set. In a lotta ways y'know?
MOAN, i see you're up to your old dodges--you were asked to distinguish between faith and superstition, without begging the question--and you failed. You then attempted to claim that this were an atheist game. I've consistently pointed out that i am only an atheist because that is how others label me, and that i have no agenda to push, that i don't care what others believe, that i do not promote "atheism." And i don't. In a forum such as this, i am free, as is everyone else, to heap scorn on the sort of witless blather you peddle. You have failed to demonstrate any difference between faith and superstition, so you attempt to turn the discussion into one of whether or not i'm an atheist. Given the kinds of games you play, i say, define atheist.
The original indictment stands, no games, just the simple truth. You were asked to show that there is a meaningful distinction between your faith and superstition, which is what you alleged, and you have failed to do so.
Therefore, one can only conclude that you cannot show any meaningful distinction between your faith and superstition, because there is none.
Neo, take a nerve pill . . . you've got a gall to label anyone else hard headed . . . come on, Bubba, quote me some more of your ludicrous scripture, then leap to the exegesis, as it is never clear that what you quote means unequivocably what you allege it means . . .
Can the Joe sixpack horseshit, too, it got old about the second time you used it.
Once again, MOAN, you quoted a thread, with my post out of context, in which someone else labelled me an atheist, and i agreed simply for sake of recognizing their definition of the term. You're the one playing games.
So, MOAN, games aside, can you make a meaningful distinction between faith and superstition? This time, when you drag in a definition of superstition, bring the entire definition, not just the parts that suit you . . .
Setanta wrote:Neo, take a nerve pill . . . you've got a gall to label anyone else hard headed . . . come on, Bubba, quote me some more of your ludicrous scripture, then leap to the exegesis, as it is never clear that what you quote means unequivocably what you allege it means . . .
Can the Joe sixpack horseshit, too, it got old about the second time you used it.
Mr. Setanta,
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed, did you? You are something else. You think I should just easily let you forget that you just might owe me an apology for calling me a bigmouth when in fact all I did was state a fact? C'mon Set, where's that sense of humor you think I should have? You had a fine time joking about me not meeting Timber's challenge yesterday. How about meeting mine and just admit you were wrong? :wink:
You seem to have no problem letting anyone "have it" (your point of view, that is). I'm not sure I have ever seen you say you were wrong or sorry about anything you have said to anyone. I'm going to do a search on that. Hmmm. I'm curious.
Be a big guy! Just say you made a boo boo!
Big a big girl, MOAN, rather than a big mouth. Admit that you can't answer Timber's question, admit that you can't distinguish between your faith and superstition.
Superstition involves unreasonable fear or awe regarding something unknown.A religious belief founded on fear or ignorance is a superstition.Generally,I think,it means anything non-Christian in a Christianised society.
For a faith to be a superstition it would have to derive from fear.If it derived from love,say,or hope or simply from a unifying impetus it would not be a superstition.
Setanta wrote:Big a big girl, MOAN, rather than a big mouth. Admit that you can't answer Timber's question, admit that you can't distinguish between your faith and superstition.
Mr. Setanta,
Go back and read what I wrote. I already said I could not answer it to the satisfaction of any one of you! I conceded to Timber yesterday. Where were you? As a matter of fact, Timber and I even chuckled a bit about it all.
Right
You never typed you were an atheist.
You never typed "I AM AN ATHEIST or I'M AN ATHEIST
." I used atheist in reference to you because you HAD TYPED THE WORDS
I AM AN ATHEIST/I'M AN ATHEIST. (Caps for Emphasis only.)
So, if you can't admit to that then fine. Everyone else can see that you typed those words, more than once. I like this one the best though:
Not only did you type I'm an atheist, you made it pretty clear by assertion you had said it before (i.e., I am sure everyone is aware by now...)
spendius,
Thank you. I tried telling them that my faith was not based on ignorance or fear, but they didn't accept that.
I did concede to Timber. No big deal.
Set wrote:
Quote:Big a big girl, MOAN, rather than a big mouth.
Mr. Set,
Perhaps you mean something that the rest of us minions do not understand. It can't be a mistake because you take great pains to point out typos and grammatical errors of others. Therefore, you would never do that yourself. Praytell, what is a big a big girl? Thank you.
The two words are a very long way apart in Roget but that is a Christian book.Words with similar meanings are in close proximity to each other in Roget.
Which suggests that Roget sees the two words in an entirely different light.
