Me my life and I - HELP!

I'm not sure if my posts are being read -- I have come down solidly in favor of stay-at-home parenthood.

However, I think that is a decision to be made once a mate is found, a decision made in tandem with that mate. How to best find a mate is a tangent, one that has been discussed here several times before, and would include things like thinking about these issues -- "Would I like to be a stay-at-home parent?" -- and making sure to discuss them with a potential partner. But I don't think that given the problem, "how should I support myself in the near future?", the answer is "Find a husband to support you." Choices are good, yes. The choice to work, the choice to marry, the choice to stay at home. All of that is very different from, "I cannot support myself, therefore I will find a man to support me." And again, that is specifically the context in which this came up.

Okay, I understand now.

You and littlek are talking short-term goals, and Asherman and I are talking long-term goals. Which was not the question. If the problem is "How should I support myself in the near future?", then only littlek can answer this. None of us knows her skills, her likes & dislikes, and the job market where she lives...at least not well enough to have an opinion half as valid as her own.

I can see why you've been married for so long, Asherman. That was a very good explanation of how marriage is supposed to work. That is what I want, too. We've only been married for 20 years, but I hope we make it as long as you and Natalie have. You are fortunate to have each other. I have always believed that at the end of the day, what matters most is how much we have loved and been loved.

I think actually k is considering all her options, or trying to at least. What is at hand at the moment is what has her back here rethinking it all once again.

All of the responses are relevant to either the here and now or the thoughts of the future, I think it all helps.

Eva, yeah, I have nothing against marriage and children as a long-term goal. My main things are, a) and...? (What is she supposed to do about it?), b), how does this solve her immediate problems, which is what was being discussed, and c) as a long-term goal, it's not for everyone.

Littlek asked for advice back in April, and then let events take their course without making any decision or taking any action to resolve the question of what she should do. My advice back then was to think through what it is that she wants out of life, to decide upon achievable goals, and then take positive action to accomplish them. I still think that is good advice. Among the alternatives available is to settle down and begin raising a family. This alternative may be Littlek's goal, since she apparently loves caring for household and children. I merely suggested that if that is her goal, then it is a good one and should not be put off into the indefinite future.

The thing is that we shouldn't put off indefinitely whatever it is we want to do with our lives. If a Littlek's long term goal is to be a mother and homemaker, then the time to start the process that will lead to that end is now. If she wants to devote her life and energy to gardening, then now is the time to begin building that future. Want to be a millionaire, then don't put off making money. Want to travel, stop reading brochures and buy a ticket somewhere. Don't talk about writing or painting, but sit down and put marks on paper. Whatever it is that a person wants will probably not suddenly appear by rubbing a lamp, it takes hard work if it is to have meaning. Tempis fugits, momento mori.

Drift like a leave on the flood, and you will go where the current takes you. For some that is itself a valid choice. The current may be everything you expect it to be; spontaneous, adventuresome and filled with rewards. You will have lived fast, died young, left a beautiful corpse, and gone out a winner. If, as is more probable, the current takes you to places where suffering is more common than not, then don't complain about what you have freely chosen. Generally in my experience it is better to take control of one's life than to be at the mercy of chance.

OK, but the question remains, how? I completely agree with what you say about taking control, not just hoping for the best, etc., it's something I've preached many times myself. But what sort of plan of action do you lay in place for getting married?

I prefer goals for which a reasonable plan of action can be laid out. I wish to become a teacher, therefore I will become certified. Reasonable. I wish to get work immediately that will bring in some money without necessarily being a career. Reasonable. I will get married. Um... it can be done, strictly speaking, but...

All that said, and again I don't want to speak for littlek, I seem to recall that while she enjoys caring for children as a nanny, she is not sure if she wants children, herself.

What is a reasonable plan to find a life partner?

1. Don't fish for whales in the bathtub. You need to look for your mate in those places that attract people who have the same world view that you do. If your passion is music, then you are more likely to find a compatible person at a concert than in at a drag race. If you like reading, try literary clubs or volunteer at the local library. You have to put yourself in the place and time where people congregate who have the values you are looking for. Where does one have the most social interaction with others? Want a quiet spouse who values the fireside, don't be looking in the local nightspots.

2. Don't be shy about starting the ball rolling. Talk and listen. Folks like to talk about themselves, and in talking we reveal who we are. Conversation is hard to under rate when it comes to deciding who we want to have a relationship with. Some of those folks we talk with will become friends and others we will decide to avoid like the plague. Conversations aren't just words, they are made up of clues to all the senses. Listen to what is being communicated. Is the person sending different messages along different channels? What do you infer when "I love you" comes from his lips, but his eyes are tracking the girl across the room? How honest are you in your own communications? Whatever you think you say and hear, you will be wrong on some of it. Be flexible, understanding and patient. Relationships don't often go from zero to a hundred miles an hour in a single date, and when they do the relationship often can't maintain that intensity for very long. Take time, and build slowly the long-term relationship.

3. Don't expect perfection. He will be filled with as many faults as yourself. However, just because a person has a habit that you find disgusting doesn't meant that they won't make a wonderful mate otherwise. Accept some faults as inevitable, and try to minimize your own failings. Learn what drives the other person, and try to make it easier for them to be the best they can be. Nurture them, and show your appreciation when they make efforts to please and accomodate your own needs. Dont wait around for Prince Charming, he doesn't exist. You do have a right to expect good character and honesty. Your spouse may be many things, but they should not be abusive or expect to dominate in all things at all times. They should honor and respect you as a full person. They should share most of your goals. I think that it is somewhat important to long-term relationships that the parties come from similar socio-economic-cultural backgrounds, but not always. Similar backgrounds just makes it easier to negotiate the rocky road that all marriages go through.

4. Be patient, realistic about what is or should be, and pay attention. Pay attention to yourself, and to those most intimately around you.

Agreed, it is not for everyone. No one choice is.

Since she brought this up some time ago, it does appear that littlek may be drifting along, waiting for life to happen to her rather than making concerted choices and going after them. And Asherman does bring up a good point. If she is looking for a long-term relationship, is she putting herself in enough good social places to find one?

A temporary job (whether it be 2 months or 2 years) is in order until she figures out what she really wants.

I think I agree with a lot of what y'all are saying. However, I think there are far too many variables in finding a compatible life partner to lay out a reasonable plan of action, in the sense that I meant. One can plan to become a teacher in a way one cannot plan to be a wife.

You can do many things that makes it more or less likely, but I don't think it is OK to blame someone for not being in a permanent relationship, and I get a little whiff of that in things like this:



Who said she has a history of forming bad relationships? She just isn't (as far as we know) currently in a permanent relationship. I think it can be far, far worse to stick with a flawed relationship just to be in something permanent than to get out of it and keep looking for someone more compatible, or just remain single for that matter.

In other words, I think all of the stuff about deciding what to do and doing it in terms of a JOB is very good, I agree. I just don't think it extends in any practical way to matrimony, nor should it.

You said above, "First, there is meeting someone, the difficulties of which littlek has chronicled here extensively. Perhaps she should be less picky? Just settle for any old guy that is nice enough and has a steady income?" I've misunderstood you perhaps? That sure sounded to me as if you were saying that Littlek has often said that she's had trouble making lasting relationships. My wording may not have been as clear as it might have been, but I certainly don't blame her for anything. I don't know the woman.

I'm not judging, much less "blaming" anyone for not being in a relationship, though I think more people benefit from them than do not. You asked for a plan that might result in finding a suitable mate, and I responded. Reluctantly, because it's awfully hard to generalize how one goes about choosing. Values are very individual and subjective. What criteria we apply will vary from person to person.

I'm also do not advocate marriage as a sort of legal prostitution. It is a serious long-term commitment that requires both parties to work hard and make numerous sacrifices, but for a mutually beneficial end. To think otherwise, I think, is just so much malarky that being a wife and homemaker is somehow demeaning.

Haven't I been clear that there are some situations and circumstances that absolutely justify breaking up a family. I will never understand to my dying day why my mother never left my drunken, violent and abusive stepfather. Apparently, she divorced my father on rather flimsy grounds (who can know the details of our parents private lives, especially when we are infants), yet she stayed with that brute until she died, and the children carry the scars to this day.

BTW, being a full-time homemaker is more than a job, it is a calling that stands proudly with any profession you might imagine. What is could be more important and rewarding than to make a comfortable, secure home where a whole family is nourished? What treasure might we put in any bankvault to compare with children grown into happy and successful adults? I've forgotten many of the little triumphs over rivals in my career, but pleasant memories of building our family are fresh and clear as if they happened yesterday. The pity is that so many men, and women, value other things more highly than building a proper home.

Ah, I think there was an element of sarcasm that was not being picked up on. I was trying to highlight what I saw as the weakness in your suggestion/ position. Sorry if that was not clear.

I completely agree that marriage is a serious long term commitment, and that it requires hard work and sacrifices. Also that being a full-time parent is a noble calling. I have said throughout that it is a valid choice. (And that it is a choice I have made, myself.)

My "how?" questions were not a request for a suitable plan per se, but an attempt to highlight how difficult it is to PLAN for this result -- marriage -- as opposed to something like becoming a teacher. Your advice was sound, but far too much relies on chance and luck to plan on it.

So that brings it back to -- if you are merely saying to littlek, "don't discount this option," well, sure. Fine. Your previous posts seemed to be making a stronger suggestion.

Some things can be planned, some thing cant, some should, some shouldnt.

Wow, there's a lot to read up on here.

I am not against marriage or at-home mom's rearing their own children. Actually, I think parents should do what they can to allow for one parent or the other to be home for their kids and not have to hire somone like me to do it for them. I think it's a flaw in our country's character that there are so mmany who do what I do, either in-home or in daycares.

The thing is that I don't want kids. So, marriage suddenly becomes less of a goal. It'd be nice, I'd like it, I think. But I wouldn't want my husband to support me.

I have always been a leaf on the water. I didn't have aspirations as a child to be a ballerina or a doctor or married. I don't know that I dislike the fact that I float. I do sometimes dislike where I end up when I do float.

I knew I'd get responses like Asher's, and posted anyway because I figured I prolly need to read them. But, I have to say, reading them usually just makes be want to float harder.

"Float harder"! I love that. Float on!

If I had anything sensible to suggest, Li'l k, I would. But I know way too little about you, or the way in which such jobs as yours are run, or what realistic other possibilities there are for you to pursue, to be able to be useful. But, hugs and support and such, anyway!

I do worry a bit, though, that you may float til you be flotsam.....

k, you do the float thing well I must say...I mean you know..you been doin it for how long now? Practice makes perfect.

I worry about the food thing mostly.
A cafe job might work well for this.

I keep going back to the first page of this thread, which is a lot like a discussion we had probably a year earlier.

Floating is nice, but an invigorating length in the pool is better for the cardiovascular system.

If you don't want children, don't have them. I think you'll be missing one of lifes pleasures and rewards, but its not for everyone.

With that out of the way, you can still take control of your life, or not. If you want to float like a leaf, then why bother making plans at all? Time and circumstance will make your decisions for you. Just remember the summer is short, and winter can come early. What you do is your choice, and the consequences will be yours to enjoy, or suffer.

Good luck.

This punched me out a little, but I know you didn't mean it to be a punch, Asherman.

My marriage didn't work out, though it was happy for many years. I am a strong person on my own and my life has value. I am not famous, wealthy, or powerful, AND don't have a husband and children. It is possible no one on earth cares much. Many care some, but I don't live in a cocoon - or even a messy bed - of love.

This is a tangent on what little k should do now, but it triggered a wish to respond for me. I do understand Asherman's points, which I take to be that a long term working marriage is a thing of beauty and good even if it is "ugly" when inspected on some day to day basis, and that home care is a perfectly good life to aspire to. I agree with that.

Anyway, what?, I want to add that a daily life of little loves, little carings, feedback from people who listen to you and to whom you listen, as in here on a2k but also people on the daily route, my friends who cashier at the Co-op, for example, bring sustenance, if not lifelong love.

My ex husband called a couple of hours ago, as he was waiting in the car for his new stepson to come out the door from tutoring. We talked for an hour. We don't talk all that often but do catch up when we do. We know each other very well. We are both worthwhile, generally happy, and generally good people (begpardon for the arrogance of that) what e'er the relationship state of either of us and however badly we f/up once upon a time.

Nicely said, Osso.