Good Grief, Aren't there any Moderates here?

And someone will immediately call you a liberal, because apparently the hallmark of a liberal is a considered response.

I think this place is full of moderates if you pay close attention to what people are actually saying.

The duck quacks truth!

fd - it's full of squabbling moderates perhaps? Moderates able to argue the point rather than retreat behind a conceptual barricade. Works for me.

Dare I say a Bill of Truth?

mmmmmmmm, Smoked Rabbit, Sanctuary is a rawther beautiful young woman.

On most subjects I am about as far left as you can get, so I guess I am part of the problem if there is one. I do hold one (or maybe even two if I think hard enough) conservative view. Since being a liberal democrat seems to be a label no one wants, maybe the fact that I hold at least one conservative view will save me. If not, I reckon I can get over it.

But as far as the hatefullness I agree, it does seem to be getting worse everyday. Not only in message boards but just in everyday life.

As an example right after the election I was at my local beauty shop and my hair dresser and I got into a debate about the election and the war. She even admitted that she really didn't see why we was in Iraq but she can't vote for Kerry because she does not believe in same sex marriages. I can't ever remember talking about politics much less debating about politics in a beauty shop before in my life. The conversation started because her daughter was getting married and her daughter's husband was scheduled to go to Iraq just shortly after their marrying so their daughter was just going to stay with them. This got her started on the war and then on to politics. The way I ended it was just by saying right out loud that I was a liberal democrat and hold most the views expressed by liberal democrats except for abortion. She just answered, "well, I guess it takes all kinds." I think she won the argument with what she considered an insult in the kind that I am. Needless to say I haven't been back. I don't hold her views against her, even some of my family members who are democrats feel the same way, it is just that it is now uncomfortable after that uncomfortable conversation to go back there.

I am not a man, DLowan.

But that makes your statement all the more interesting, doesn't it?


Now, on topic.

LastModerate,

I am more than thrilled to see and converse with other moderates on this forum, but your attitude towards anyone who's not a moderate, especially right-wingers, is bugging me. Why do you consider yourself a moderate if you despise the right so much? At least, it's coming off that way. You're insulting anyone who doesn't come in here on our side.

Isn't it our job to be the goal-keepers here? I agree with Finn that..


It does get fluffy and uneventful in the long-run, but that's why I love it. I hate debating over something simply because I think it's right, and I don't like hating someone just because they're different. To be able to see the benefits of not conflicting constantly, not having to carry an ego around everywhere you go - that's a moderate.

This is why I consider myself a part of this brigade. Not because I agree with both sides occasionally, but because I truly feel no hatred towards either party.

I may disagree with one more than the other on certain issues..for instance, right-wing isn't cut out for me because of the religious involvement. However, I could never consider myself a liberal because I see it as a sometimes carefree lifestyle. Both of these being results of certain attitudes towards their beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. Neither party suits me, but I don't disregard one more than the other.

If you have personal grudges or resentment towards right/left wing parties, then of course you can't control that, but I don't want members of A2K to get the impression that this is how a moderate behaves. I keep a very even playing field, always. I never debate over political issues because, for the majority of them, I can see both sides. This, in my opinion, is being moderate. I'd like our members to see this side of the middle, not the "na-na-na-na-boo-boo" one I've seen being displayed on this thread.

Re: Good Grief, Aren't there any Moderates here?

I'd consider everyone between, say, Dlowan and Thomas to be pretty moderate. I mean, from my Dutch vantage point, and taking into account style of reasoning as much as actual points of view. Ie, Thomas would be a radical libertarian in Holland, but since he is so persistently reasonable, polite and thorough in his postings, he ends up representing exemplary moderation.

From where I'm standing Sozobe is the ultimate moderate. In Dutch terms she would be somewhere centre-left, pretty mainstream if a tad progressive. Add to that how she is invariably reasonable and polite, and you've got the deal.

I think on an American scale, posters like Panzade and Roger might represent Moderates here - though for sure, in Holland they'd be mainstream right-wing, I think. Realjohnboy is to the left of that, but I'd definitely consider him moderate too. (Again, style is as important as ideology, when it comes to being moderate in argument.)

Vice versa, Steve has a definitely more strident style of posting, but in terms of political positions would end up pretty much centrist too, in European terms anyway.

I strongly repudiate any suggestion that I am a moderate. If anyone dares suggest it, please remind them that I'm a bloody leftist. 'K?

I consider myself a moderate and will typically vote Liberterian because the candidates that survive the primary process in the major parties tend to be polar opposites. It very frustrating on election day to be forced to choose between an ultra-liberal and an ultra-conservative. In our last two Presidential elections I felt the need to make my 'vote against' count by voting for the democratic party candidate, but it was in no way a 'vote for' the party.

I've said this before; can you imagine where we might be today if either Bill Bradly or John McCain had survived the primary process in 2000?

I am God. What does that make me?

Able to walk through walls and whisper things in the ears of sleeping people such as "danger is afoot," or "there's an armidillo your pants."

And then there's where the far left and the far right meet. Fundamentalist Christians and leftie pinkos for debt reduction to Africa. Isolationist paleoconservatives and pacifist progressives against the war in Iraq. Trade unionists and xenophobes against laxer immigration rules. Fundies making the same call for helping the poor as lefties do. Joining together in a long-needed legislative push to combat prison rape.

In Europe, its the nationalist far right and the populist far left who both rail against the EU, against globalisation and free trade. In South-Eastern Europe, it was ex- and post-communists and pseudo-fascists who together bashed minorities through much of the 90s, Serbia/Bulgaria/Romania.

Politics, in a way, is circular rather than a linear scale from left to right.

<yeh, I agree with that>

The labels can't be applied without overlaps.

I consider anyone who hates Bush and blames any and everything including hurricane relief on him to be liberals, blindly following hate and fashion, devoid of thought.

A person, who disagrees with Bush or GOP policies and can elucidate their reasoning--and doesn't vilify Bush as some demonic subhuman--is respectable to me. It should be about policy, and action or inaction, not personalities.

I'm sure there's a similar template for conservatives.

What about someone who does both?

They suck.

Dont remember his axis, but did find back two others. Lastmoderate might be interested, its relevant to the topic I'm sure.

Thread by Asherman on a quiz called The Political Compass HERE.

That one's cool because you can compare where you stand with where various 2004 American presidential candidates, international figures and British parties stand. The figures showing where the American politicians and British parties stand is reproduced in this post, and the one where historical figures (Gandhi, Stalin) are mapped in is reproduced in this one, in the other thread Asherman started on the same topic.

There's also this quiz called "The World's Smallest Political Quiz", but its strongly slanted to the Libertarian side. There's a thread about that one too - well, more than one I think, but one is HERE.

You frickin' moderate.

I'm sure thats the first time anyone called Lash a moderate.

Actually, I remember her saying she's considered on the moderate/liberal side by friends or folks ... thats kinda hard to imagine, but then the world is big.

Right.

All the time........


Oh - unless your're one of those Dionysian gods?