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Katrina-Bush and the political questions begin

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 09:44 am
Osso
ossobuco wrote:
Good grief, re the German planes.


Osso, this is only one disgusting example documented by the Media.

BBB Mad
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 09:48 am
According to miliary sources at Pensacola in Florida (where the planes landed before the permission was deletd), as quoted by Der Spiegel, photos of 'Care parcels' delivered to the USA wouldn't show a nice picture.

The US-embassady said today that the 'Nato-clearance' for the food now is accepted (well, US soldiers ate them since years in Afghanistan, and more than 45 tons were already delivered to New Orleans), howevern it's still unclear, if further help flights from Germany will be allowed.
(Which should be regulated soon, since two more planes with further equipment for the 100-men-pump crews are still waiting as well.)
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2005 09:58 am
Walter
Walter Hinteler wrote:
According to miliary sources at Pensacola in Florida (where the planes landed before the permission was deletd), as quoted by Der Spiegel, photos of 'Care parcels' delivered to the USA wouldn't show a nice picture.

The US-embassady said today that the 'Nato-clearance' for the food now is accepted (well, US soldiers ate them since years in Afghanistan, and more than 45 tons were already delivered to New Orleans), howevern it's still unclear, if further help flights from Germany will be allowed.
(Which should be regulated soon, since two more planes with further equipment for the 100-men-pump crews are still waiting as well.)


Walter, why can't Michael Chertoff get the image makers the hell out of New Orleans? They are sabotaging the relief effort.

BBB
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 07:56 am
In contrast to the discussions on A2K, Americans at large blame both federal and local/state authorities with little hesitation - and to almost exactly the same degree.

Governments Failed on Katrina, Say Americans

"72 per cent of respondents believe the federal government has done a fair or poor in getting help to the people affected by the flooding and storm damage. [..] 69 per cent of respondents have a negative assessment of the actions of state and local governments."

Quote:
Polling Data

Thinking about the way the federal government--that is, the government in Washington--responded to the problems caused by the impact of the hurricane on the city of New Orleans, how would you rate the job the federal government has done in getting help to the people affected by the flooding and storm damage? Would you say the federal government has done...

An excellent job
5%

A good job
21%

Only a fair job
32%

A poor job
40%

Don't know
2%

And how would you rate the job state and local governments in Louisiana have done in getting help to people in New Orleans? Would you say the state and local governments have done...

An excellent job
5%

A good job
20%

Only a fair job
34%

A poor job
35%

Don't know
6%

Source: Princeton Survey Research Associates / Newsweek
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 03:02 pm
They didn't drink the water yet.

A2K is no indicator of popular American sentiment.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 03:14 pm
Well, its certainly hard to find people here who fault both federal and local/state authorities with equally little hesitation. Lot of defending and apologising and excusing going on.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 03:23 pm
Likely the people not jumping in to blame the federal government did so because of the crazed lynch mob mentality against Bush--as if he had an instrumental role--some said purposeful role --in what went wrong.

If the shrill cacophony wasn't so irresponsible, everyone here would have likely agreed that FEMA missed opportunities.

But, the critics didn't even want to concede that it was an unprecedented problem--they didn't assess the situation rationally. It does put others in a position of just straight arguing the other side.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 03:31 pm
The conservative pro-Bush UK's Times writes:

Quote:
Mr Bush's acceptance of responsibility for the government's slow and inadequate response is a sign of how serious the political fallout from the hurricane has become for Mr Bush. It is a rare step from a president who abhors admitting mistakes.
Source
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 04:03 pm
...and what evidence did they present to prove their statement of opinion that he abhors admitting mistakes?

That's conjecture, not fact.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 04:14 pm
Duct Tape Paulison new FEMA Director. ---BBB
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 04:18 pm
Lash wrote:
...and what evidence did they present to prove their statement of opinion that he abhors admitting mistakes?

That's conjecture, not fact.


Well, let's see a list of quotations from the fellow where he does admit mistakes (in the specific).

Or we could listen to David Brooks, on Hardball
Quote:
MATTHEWS: Do you think there's a problem with this? I remember when the president wrote in his diary -- his father, President Bush senior -- "you know, I picked [former Vice President Dan] Quayle the first time around, and I wish I hadn't. But I'm stuck with him, and I can't admit it." Is there a problem with this president simply admitting, "I put the wrong people at certain jobs, I didn't get back fast enough to the White House, I wasn't calling the orders fast enough?"

BROOKS: From Day One, they had decided that our public relations is not going to be honest. Privately, they admit mistakes all the time. Publicly -- and I've had this debate with them since Day One; I always say admit a mistake, people will give you credit --

MATTHEWS: Who do you debate this with?

BROOKS: With people who work in the White House.

MATTHEWS: I thought you were talking about with the president in the back room.

[laughter]

BROOKS: Not with him, but they represent what he believes, which is, if you admit a mistake, you get no credit from your enemies, and then you open up another week's story, because the admission of a little mistake leads to the admission of big mistakes and another week's story. It's totally tactical and totally insincere.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 04:21 pm
So, other people--who he didn't name said this, allegedly--and ipsofacto, that means BUSH thinks it...

And this is good enough for liberals. A fact, where you're concerned...?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 06:32 am
lash

Who on earth are you arguing with? The historical record shows two instances of Bush admitting specific personal error while in public life:
1) selling Sosa
2) Katrina
You got more that would stand as evidence?

Perhaps you are arguing with Brooks. Go ahead. Write him a letter and show him how he's got all those years of conversations with Rove and Card and Ari and Bush wrong and you've got the right story here.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 06:48 am
blatham wrote:
MATTHEWS: Who do you debate this with?
BROOKS: With people who work in the White House.

Lash wrote:
So, other people--who he didn't name said this, allegedly--and ipsofacto, that means BUSH thinks it...

blatham wrote:
Who on earth are you arguing with? [...]Perhaps you are arguing with Brooks. Go ahead.

Blatham, even if Iraq taught you nothing else, it should have taught you a healthy skepticism of unidentified sources who say exactly what you want to hear. I think what Lash is trying to do here is to instill some such skepticism in you. Admittedly her blanket "Lash"ing out at liberals does not help her make her point. Nevertheless, I think it's a pertinent point to make about the interview snippet you quoted.

Conversely, Lash, perhaps you could offer a few more instances where George W. Bush specifically admitted mistakes? It would make the case for your objection much stronger.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 07:42 am
I think the impression people have that Bush does not admit mistakes is because when asked in the past he couldn't really come up any without clarifiers. When Bush was asked in a new conference to name mistakes he has made since becoming President, he couldn't name any. Then in the Kerry/Bush debate he was a little more prepared and said he made some mistakes in the people he has hired. (seems he must of overlooked brown)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040413-20.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18677-2004Oct8.html
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 07:48 am
Quote:
BROOKS: Not with him, but they represent what he believes, which is, if you admit a mistake, you get no credit from your enemies, and then you open up another week's story, because the admission of a little mistake leads to the admission of big mistakes and another week's story. It's totally tactical and totally insincere.


Does it take a rocket scientist to ascertain the architect of this policy? I mean really people. Think about it.

BTW Karl Rove was on the injured reserve, recuperating from a kidney stine attack, furing the early days of Katrina.

Connect the dots.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 08:10 am
thomas wrote:
Quote:
Blatham, even if Iraq taught you nothing else, it should have taught you a healthy skepticism of unidentified sources who say exactly what you want to hear. I think what Lash is trying to do here is to instill some such skepticism in you.


Nah, healthy skepticism ain't really Lash's thing here. She's just playing goalie, "It did NOT go in the net, it hit the goalpost. I do NOT care what the fukkin instant replay is showin'."


First, we already knew that what Brooks says is the case because:
- the historical examples are precisely, and only, as I've given them
- and there's the rich record of good reasons for Bush to be fessin' up to fukkin' up
- and there's all the instances we each know of where Bush has refused all direct invitations to do such fessin.

So, it ain't as if this is news or some kind of contentious claim to begin with.

And then, it ain't as if Brooks (who tutored under Bill Buckley, wrote for the Weekly Standard for years, who is a Republican, votes Republican and represents Republican ideology as a pundit and writer now at the NY Times) has some anti-Bush agenda he's forwarding via this DISGUSTING LIE ABOUT BUSH not being able to, or not wishing to, fess up.

So, nah, Lash's thing here isn't as you kindly suggest.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 11:04 am
blatham wrote:
So, nah, Lash's thing here isn't as you kindly suggest.

I'm sure she will shame you by posting many quotations of Bush admitting specific mistakes.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 11:11 am
During the election last year, in a debate, Bush admitted that he made some appointments that he shouldn't have when he was asked whether or not he'd made any mistakes. But that was about it.

Cycloptichorn
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Sep, 2005 03:30 pm
Thomas wrote:
blatham wrote:
So, nah, Lash's thing here isn't as you kindly suggest.

I'm sure she will shame you by posting many quotations of Bush admitting specific mistakes.


Well, I confess, that is my deep fear in this instance. I've looked the fool so often that when I go to visit friends, they just immediately set me a place in some corner and give me one of those sharpened-pencil-hats. But still, I have my standards and were Lash to whup me here, well I should surely keel over and die. Coronary, likely.
0 Replies
 
 

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