Looters of N.O.

At all events, we all pay for the looting by the higher prices incurred for those companies to make up their losses, and the higher insurance premiums insurance carriers charge. It's a can't win situation for all concerned, except indigent looters.

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Amigo wrote:

Over $1 billion in employees' pension funds were taken away when Enron went bankrupt.Ken Lay walked away with over $ 100 million. Is Ken Lay a looter? ...But were going to comndem a poor homeless guy we see on the news for stealing a DVD player.

but we aren't talking about ken lay. we know he sucks.

the point is , we shouldn't be him. then we suck.

[size=7]fixed a boo boo..[/size]

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"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by it's example. Crime is contagious. If the govervment becomes the law breaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to become a law unto himself." -Justice Luis D.Brandeis

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Amigo wrote:

"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by it's example. Crime is contagious. If the govervment becomes the law breaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to become a law unto himself." -Justice Brandeis

true. so we should avoid doing the same if we expect to create a better world, right ?

to use this quote as a justification is a cop out.

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Setanta wrote:

At all events, we all pay for the looting by the higher prices incurred for those companies to make up their losses, and the higher insurance premiums insurance carriers charge. It's a can't win situation for all concerned, except indigent looters.

yup. the corporations aren't gonna eat the lost revenue out of altruism. realisticly, they can't. on top of all else, that's gonna cost jobs.

the indigent looters seem to be the only ones that had a plan and put it to work quickly...

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Amigo wrote:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by it's example. Crime is contagious. If the govervment becomes the law breaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to become a law unto himself." -Justice Brandeis

true. so we should avoid doing the same if we expect to create a better world, right ?

to use this quote as a justification is a cop out.

Don't tread, I'm not justifying stealing.I'm saying why do we judge one person and not the other and what would all who judge do in their position?If were going to judge one lets judge all or their is no justice.How can one class of people be doing the same thing the other class are doing and one be quilty and thee other ignored.

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Amigo wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Amigo wrote:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by it's example. Crime is contagious. If the govervment becomes the law breaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to become a law unto himself." -Justice Brandeis

true. so we should avoid doing the same if we expect to create a better world, right ?

to use this quote as a justification is a cop out.
Don't tread, I'm not justifying stealing.I'm saying why do we judge one person and not the other and what would all who judge do in their position?If were going to judge one lets judge all or their is no justice.How can one class of people be doing the same thing the other class are doing and one be quilty and thee other ignored.

the ken lays have already been judged to be dishonest. they've been indicted. some have already been sentenced, like the weasal from world com. and what's his name from the adelphia. if they arrested the looters, it would take time to process that case too. appeals, etc.

but again, my argument is that you can't claim the moral high ground over the corporate profiteers while you walk off with a stolen television.

that act, at the very least, means that some other person is gonna have to pay more to get what they need. and most of us aren't rollin' in cash these days, ya know.

look at it this way. are you gonna be happy when you come home and somebody's broken in and boosted your t.v., because they are poor and they want one ?

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BBB
Stupid people do stupid things, always have, always will.

When people get caught up in such a disaster, the worst and the best will come out in people.

Remember the looting that occurred in Iraq? That was true criminality.
What's happening in New Orleans is a mixture of minor criminality and desperate need. We need to take care not to paint everyone with the criminality brush.

BBB

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Amigo
Your reasoning is all wet. Trying to justify looting and lawlessness with the phony argument that someone else did. Two wrongs do not make a right. In addition whether you are aware of it or not looting has not been limited to large businesses only. Small businesses have been similarly looted. How would you justify the car jacking, shootings, interference with people trying to help in the cleanup, the roving gangs, rapes and etc.
IMO martial law should be imposed and law breakers made to pay the price.

Yes, a bullet to the head.

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Don't tread, How did I (we) get alighned with looters?All my post have to do with judgement and hypocracy not justification.By the way Iv'e had my T.V. stolen, twice Laughing

.I'd rather see the poor steal from the rich then the rich steal from the poor at least they have a good reason.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Amigo wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Amigo wrote:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by it's example. Crime is contagious. If the govervment becomes the law breaker, it breeds contempt for laws; it invites every man to become a law unto himself." -Justice Brandeis

true. so we should avoid doing the same if we expect to create a better world, right ?

to use this quote as a justification is a cop out.
Don't tread, I'm not justifying stealing.I'm saying why do we judge one person and not the other and what would all who judge do in their position?If were going to judge one lets judge all or their is no justice.How can one class of people be doing the same thing the other class are doing and one be quilty and thee other ignored.

the ken lays have already been judged to be dishonest. they've been indicted. some have already been sentenced, like the weasal from world com. and what's his name from the adelphia. if they arrested the looters, it would take time to process that case too. appeals, etc.

but again, my argument is that you can't claim the moral high ground over the corporate profiteers while you walk off with a stolen television.

that act, at the very least, means that some other person is gonna have to pay more to get what they need. and most of us aren't rollin' in cash these days, ya know.

look at it this way. are you gonna be happy when you come home and somebody's broken in and boosted your t.v., because they are poor and they want one ?

I am not defending looters, but I think it's an interesting issue you've brought up. Is an already rich corporate criminal on equal moral footing with a poor looter?

I guess it depends on the situation. I think you have to look at both of their situations before they did the crime, to see the motivations behind their actions. Kenneth Lay, for instance. Rich guy, big-time CEO, plans, ahead of time, mind you, to steal money for no other reason than greed, and probably partially because he sees it as a game. He who has all the money he'll ever need, playing a game with other people's lives. Thousands of lives.

Now, compare that with a poor guy, probably living in a shithole with poor plumbing and a crappy structure, struggling to eek out a living, maybe not even employed, but still, just living. And then all of a sudden his house is gone, his family is stranded, all around him is chaos. Stores are being looted all around him, so he sees an opportunity and goes for it. No grand scheme hatched, knowing full well what it would do to others, just an opportunity, and a temptation.

I think the looter has the higher moral ground in this situation, don't you? Isn't it a lower thing to do pre-meditate to screw over thousands than to steal a TV because you see an opportunity come your way?

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the cousin of my mrs lived in Biloxi, MS she has lost everything and the business where she worked was washed away, her other cousin is trying to get her to move out to CA.

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au1929 wrote:

Amigo
Your reasoning is all wet. Trying to justify looting and lawlessness with the phony argument that someone else did. Two wrongs do not make a right. In addition whether you are aware of it or not looting has not been limited to large businesses only. Small businesses have been similarly looted. How would you justify the car jacking, shootings, interference with people trying to help in the cleanup, the roving gangs, rapes and etc.
IMO martial law should be imposed and law breakers made to pay the price.

Yes, a bullet to the head.

Were am I justifying looting and why would you ask me to justify criminal activity.You guys really have the wrong idea about me.

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Your responses certainly give the impression that you are attempting to justify the actions of the looters.
The fact that Ken Lay is a crook does not make the looters less of one.

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What the looters are doing is wrong, but the effort that will have to go in to stopping them would be best used somewhere else.

I don't care if a TV is taken from a big corperation, a small bussiness, or a home...there are people without clean water. You won't care of your TV is nicked if you're dead.

As I understand it NO is a very poor run down area, poor people are the ones who get screwed by society and business at every oppotunity. Now that they're going all out for number 1 people are saying they should be shot, this to me is wrong.

I know the cost of what is being done will be passed on to others, but this is the same people who pay for benifits when people are sack to improve profits. They're sickerning and decetful profiting that has been going across the world for years, yet nobody suggested shooting anybody for moving manufacturing workforces to asian to be done in sweat shops which is worse for the ecconomy then the looting in NO.

I think amigo's points (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't to critisis corperations and let the looters off, but that the exact opposite is happerned. Big Business gets away with, well is praised for, commiting hydiously odius acts in pursuit of more profit, while people who are not doing anything worse (both are just putting their own well being infront of others who are essenially powerless to stop them) many be killed for it.

I agree. These people are stealing, they're theives but there have been theives stealing for a good long while now. In a perfect world it wouldn't be happerning, but there's more pressing issues of people acctually dieing to take care off.

Why use bullets to stop them anyway? Why not duck tape?

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I have to wonder at the ignorance or just plain stupidity of some of you people.
Some of you are complaining that the NG cant help because they are all in Iraq.
Do any of you even bother to do a little research at all?
According to this site...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arng-la.htm

there are 11,500 members of the La National Guard.

According to this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090101661.html

There are 3700 members of the La NG in Iraq.
That leaves almost 8000 members of the LA NG available to respond to the hurricane.
Now,since the NG answers to and takes orders from the governor of the state,why didn't the gov of La mobilize them before the storm?

Where are they?
Why didn't the Gov call them up and have them act?
Those 8000 people could have helped immensely,they could have been way ahead on evacuations,they could have secured the city and restored order.

The mayor of NO has been crying and blaming Bush,but he bears some of the responsibility.
In any disaster,the order of response is local,state,then federal.
Why didn't the mayor commandeer the city buses and the school buses to help get people out?
Why didn't the gov order the La NG to start evacuating people?

All of us know that the federal govt takes a few days to respond to anything,but when they do its with overwhelming resources.
We are seeing that now,with troops moving in with convoys of supplies,and with the firepower to restore order and maintain it.

So,I ask again...What happened to those 8000 members of the La NG that aren't in Iraq?
Whose fault is it that they weren't mobilized before the storm?

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terrygallagher

Anarchy and the law of the jungle should not be tolerated. I was listening to a representative from Entergy. They are working feverishly to repair the electrical systems. His comment was that they will not send their people in if they cannot be protected. That was echoed by some of the other companies involved in cleanup and repair.

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Amigo wrote:

Don't tread, How did I (we) get alighned with looters?All my post have to do with judgement and hypocracy not justification.By the way Iv'e had my T.V. stolen, twice .I'd rather see the poor steal from the rich then the rich steal from the poor at least they have a good reason.

umm. i don't mean to align you and i, or anybody else, with the looters.

just pointing out that if i/you/we want to get up on the roof and yell about corporate theft and corporate greed, we have to approach it from the standpoint that all theft and greed are not things we want to be associated with.

for one thing, theft and greed are not good qualities. secondly, to say that it's bad for rich folks, but okay for everybody else to go that way is hypocritical.

sorry 'bout your boob tubes. when i lived down in hollywood a gazzillion years ago i got hit a couple of times at my old pondo on cahuenga.

the last time, i had 4 guitars taken. not only did i need them to make money, they were all collector's pieces. i found out who'd done the dirty deed and got 'em back.

so, let's see... i was dirt poor. the junkie bahstad that ripped me off was poor. hmmmm.

nope, sorry. can't make an excuse for him being a greedy, theiving a-ho. Laughing

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kickycan wrote:

I think the looter has the higher moral ground in this situation, don't you? Isn't it a lower thing to do pre-meditate to screw over thousands than to steal a TV because you see an opportunity come your way?

naw, i feel like it's the same thing, kicky.

both see an opportunity to make a score off of somebody at a disadvantage and both do it without caring how it's gonna effect anyone else.

it's the same s**t whether the guy is wearing brooks brothers or nike.

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au1929 wrote:

Anarchy and the law of the jungle should not be tolerated.

Yet your advocating killing people...

Shooting at looters will make things less safe for people coming into help, if somebody is still looting and there is a shoot to kill policy then the looter will most like get a gun and it will be a kill or be killed situation for them. I still think duck tape would be a better option than murder.

I don't mean that looting should be tolerated, I'm just saying there is more important things to get sorted before the looting is delt with.

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Looters of N.O.

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