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Trump and 18 others charged in Georgia Election Probe

 
 
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2023 09:05 pm
Yikes, can you believe this is happening?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 6,551 • Replies: 135

 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 02:52 am
@glitterbag,
But what about her emails?

Trump Indictment, Part IV: A Spectacle That Has Become Surreally Routine

The former president has sought to systematically drain the suspense from his criminal cases. But the Trial(s) of the Century loom.

Quote:
Another grand jury, another indictment. For the fourth time in as many months, former President Donald J. Trump was charged on Monday with serious crimes and what was once unprecedented has now become surreally routine.

The novelty of a former leader of the United States being called a felon has somehow worn off. Not that the sweeping 98-page indictment handed up in Georgia accusing him of corruptly trying to reverse the state’s 2020 election results was any less momentous. But a country of short attention spans has now seen this three times before and grown oddly accustomed to the spectacle.

Multiple prosecutors have now cumulatively laid out an alleged presidential crime spree of epic proportions, complete with tangled intrigues, mysterious co-conspirators and intersecting subplots. The Georgia indictment went further than previous ones by charging 18 others with joining a criminal enterprise with the former president, including associates like Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Sidney Powell, Jeffrey Clark and John Eastman.

Yet most Americans made up their minds about Mr. Trump long before prosecutors like Fani T. Willis or Jack Smith weighed in, polls have shown. He is, depending on the perspective, a serial lawbreaker finally being brought to justice or a victim of persecution by partisans intent on keeping him out of office. The Georgia indictment, powerful as it is in its language, has been priced into the market, as the Wall Street types would put it.

“The accumulated indictments are kind of a white noise for voters,” said Sarah Longwell, a Republican political consultant who has organized opposition to Mr. Trump and conducts weekly focus groups with voters. “They can’t tell the difference between Georgia and Jack Smith because it all blurs together in one long news cycle of Trump’s-in-trouble.”

This speaks volumes about how much Mr. Trump has transformed America in the eight years since he first ran for the White House. The nation once recoiled at presidential candidates caught driving under the influence or swiping lines in a speech without credit. Now one of the two major parties has not ruled out a front-runner charged with conspiring to subvert democracy, endangering national security, obstructing justice and falsifying records of hush money to a pornographic film star.

Mr. Trump has moved the lines so far that supporters — including most of his Republican opponents for next year’s presidential nomination — show no signs of turning against him no matter how many indictments are issued, a testament to how much he has forced his party to embrace his martyrdom narrative. The notion that a rap sheet with multiple felonies would not be automatically disqualifying would have stunned the 44 presidents who came before him, including the Republicans.

“It’s just another norm he’s smashed,” said Jennifer Palmieri, a longtime Democratic strategist who worked for Hillary Clinton’s campaign against Mr. Trump in 2016. “The indictments have failed to upset the fundamental dynamic that keeps Trump strong — his supporters’ rock-solid belief that he is on their side.”

He benefits too from the been-there, done-that quality of a fourth time in the dock. When Mr. Trump was arraigned in April on the New York hush money charges, the first indictment of a former president in history, 8.2 million people tuned into Fox, MSNBC and CNN to watch. But when he entered a plea in Florida in June in the classified documents case, the audience fell to 5.5 million. Interest ticked up for this month’s arraignment in Washington on charges of corruptly trying to overturn the election, with 5.9 million tuning in.

Still, even if the surprise value has faded, the outrage surely has not for a sizable part of the country, which sees this as a much-deserved comeuppance. And while the indictments have bolstered rather than eroded Mr. Trump’s support among Republicans, no one can predict for sure what might happen if and when he goes on trial after trial after trial.

A relentless drumbeat of evidence and witnesses against him could in theory persuade some backers to abandon him, if for no other reason than it might make him less likely to win a general election rematch against President Biden next year.

Of course, that is just what some analysts predicted might happen if Mr. Trump were actually indicted. If not the first time, then surely the second time. If not the second time, then maybe the third time. Predictions stopped by the fourth.

It could still play out the opposite way. While the general facts are not contested, some of the cases are built on legal arguments that may end up not persuading a jury. If Mr. Trump is acquitted, he will trumpet the verdict as an I-told-you-so vindication.

“I do think a conviction on a serious felony charge may change the views of at least the maybe-Republican cohort in the G.O.P. about his electability,” said Whit Ayres, a veteran Republican pollster. “On the other hand, an acquittal in the first case virtually assures his renomination.”

Case No. 23SC188947 brought by Ms. Willis, the Fulton County, Ga., district attorney, raises grave matters. Among other things, the former president was charged with violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO, a law historically associated with mafia prosecutions, as well as solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer and conspiracy to commit false statements and writings.

“It is still historic and meaningful but there’s diminishing marginal utility in the politics, particularly when it’s the same scheme on which Jack Smith indicted him,” said Brendan Buck, an adviser to past Republican House speakers. “For voters, at this point you’ve decided whether being indicted is problematic or if you believe this is all being done to undermine his campaign.”

Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster, agreed that the Georgia indictment “largely replays the same political dynamics as the federal indictment.” But he added that what makes the Georgia case slightly different “is that it focuses the narrative more closely on Republican officials who stood up to Trump because they knew what he was asking was wrong.”

Mr. Trump has systematically treated his criminal cases as if they were just another plot twist in his ongoing political reality show.

After a day of blitzing out fund-raising appeals anticipating the Georgia indictment, Mr. Trump’s campaign issued a late-night statement once it was issued assailing “the Biden-Smith goon squads” and the “rabid partisan” Ms. Willis while calling the various prosecutions “un-American and wrong.”

Speaking to supporters in Alabama a couple of days after his last arraignment, he claimed he was looking forward to the next one. “We need one more indictment to close out this election,” he boasted.

That is bravado — the sort of bring-it-on bluster that electrifies a Trump rally. As much as his strategists spin that more indictments are actually better for him, no one truly wants to face multiple prosecutions, or at least no one ought to. Each case is a threat to Mr. Trump’s liberty and legacy. Even if he manages an escape from one legal net, there are that many more that could ensnare him.

At this point, Mr. Trump is about to become a professional defendant. He has already been found liable for sexual abuse by a jury that ordered $5 million in damages in a civil trial this year, and his family-run business has been convicted of 17 counts of tax fraud and other financial crimes in a separate criminal trial.

Mr. Trump has five more trials scheduled between now and May — the hush money case, the classified documents case, a New York State civil fraud trial and two federal civil trials. A sixth trial will be scheduled in Mr. Smith’s election conspiracy case and now a seventh on the Georgia counts. Altogether, that would mean nine trials for Mr. Trump since leaving the White House, not counting the Senate impeachment trial just after his term expired.

But these four criminal trials matter the most. The table has now been set, the issues laid out by four grand juries in four locations. All told, they have charged him with 91 felonies, any one of which could send him to prison for years.

And so the country must brace itself for what will surely be described as the Trial of the Century. Which will be followed by the next Trial of the Century. And then the next. And then the next.

nyt
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Region Philbis
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 04:42 am
@Brandon9000,

... polly want a cracker?

#Guilty45
#LockHimUpAlready







Brandon9000
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 06:02 am
@Region Philbis,
Translation: You can't describe a single crime.

Someone who makes a claim which they can't back up with a particle of evidence is called the loser.
neptuneblue
 
  5  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 06:08 am
@Brandon9000,
To actively subvert federal and state elections is a crime. He lost. He's the loser.
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 02:40 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

I defy anyone to tell me any crime he might have committed, and don't just cut and paste a charge name, actually describe the criminal action.


I defy you to read the ******* indictment. What's the problem, no reading comprehension?
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Brandon9000
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 03:40 pm
@neptuneblue,
Well, we're making progress now, but I did say describe. How did he subvert elections? Are you able to say?
neptuneblue
 
  5  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 03:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
Sure, this is easy.

Making phone calls to "find more votes" to public officials is illegal and generally called coercion.

Not accepting a public defeat isn't against the law but failing to acknowledge an incoming administration is. That's violating the Presidential Transition Act.
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 04:37 pm

https://iili.io/HDrzw6x.jpg
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 04:45 pm
@Region Philbis,
as it should be
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 08:25 pm
It always comes down to this big mouth

https://digbysblog.net/2023/08/15/it-always-comes-down-to-this-big-mouth/

It always comes down to this big mouth
Published by digby on August 15, 2023


Just because he wrote it on twitter doesn’t mean it can’t be a crime:

What stands out in the indictment is how it uses Trump’s tweets against him – as Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis alleges Trump and his co-defendants engaged in a criminal enterprise to overturn the 2020 election results as they pressured state and federal officials.

“Wow! Blockbuster testimony taking place right now in Georgia. Ballot stuffing by Dems when Republicans were forced to leave the large counting room. Plenty more coming, but this alone leads to an easy win of the State!” Trump tweeted on Dec. 3, 2020.

“People in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in ‘voting’ machines. Great job @BrianKempGA!” – Dec. 3, 2020.

“I spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger yesterday about Fulton County and voter fraud in Georgia. He was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the ‘ballots under table’ scam, ballot destruction, out of state ‘voters’, dead voters, and more. He has no clue!” – Jan. 3, 2021.

“The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors.” – Jan. 5, 2021.

“States want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval. All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the States, AND WE WIN. Do it Mike, this is time for extreme courage!” – Jan. 6, 2021.


These tweets were all in plain sight for everyone to see, which might have blunted their impact at the time the former president was firing off his constant missives.

But they are now a big part of the latest indictment against Trump.

Can a tweet be a crime?

In remarks late last night, Willis said the indictment included “overt acts” – actions that wouldn’t be a crime on their own but might prove a larger pattern, NBC’s Ginger Gibson writes.

“Many occurred in Georgia and some occurred in other jurisdictions and are included because the grand jury believes they were part of the illegal effort to overturn the result of Georgia’s 2020 presidential election,” Willis said.


Trump is stupid and shameless so he often lied or gave unlawful orders on twitter or some other public forum. He believed that he was totally protected by the first amendment or executive privilege. Those rights are not absolute and if he gave it half a thought (or had half a brain) he would have realized that. Executive privilege (or Article II) does not allow a president to do anything he wants. And when speech is in furtherance of a crime like fraud it’s not protected.

You’d think a snake oil fraudster like Trump would have been aware of that. Of course he’s gotten away with it his whole life so I suppose he assumed he always would.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2023 08:46 pm
@Brandon9000,
Just for you, dingbat:

https://i.imgur.com/ZTBCh8U.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BItbyQi.png


I already know your rebuttal: "No he didn't."
0 Replies
 
lmur
 
  5  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 04:44 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Translation: You can't describe a single crime.

Someone who makes a claim which they can't back up with a particle of evidence is called the loser.


Wow! Congratulations on your stunning victory.
Region Philbis
 
  5  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 09:02 am
@lmur,

so much winning...
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 10:50 am
Jesus Wept.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3p8WdTbwAAOHDZ?format=jpg&name=900x900
tsarstepan
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 11:41 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Jesus Wept.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3p8WdTbwAAOHDZ?format=jpg&name=900x900

And also, Jesus was informed by his general practitioner that he also tested positive for Hepatitis A and B and C, tuberculosis, chlamydia, syphilis, and gonorrhea.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  6  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 11:50 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:


I defy anyone to tell me any crime he might have committed, and don't just cut and paste a charge name, actually describe the criminal action.


Not sure if you are just kidding...or if you did not think when you wrote your challenge, Brandon...although I suspect it was the latter.

Every crime he is charged with in any/all of the indictments...are crimes he might have committed.

That is why they are going to have the trials...to determine if prosecutors can prove to the degree necessary that he did.

You do realize that, right?

But no matter what...HE MIGHT HAVE COMMITTED THEM.
thack45
 
  5  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2023 12:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Every crime he is charged with in any/all of the indictments...are crimes he might have committed.

That is why they are going to have the trials...to determine if prosecutors can prove to the degree necessary that he did.

Upvoted for the correct answer. I suspect they're self-medicating with what the kids call "copium", by circumnavigating everything that's right in front of us, creating a related but altered argument with more favorable rules, and pulling any who oblige away from the original matter being discussed.

Personally, I'm ready for the entire Trump saga to be over. While I do have curiosities about actual details of the charges, a lot of what's out there is just more "experts say" garbage jamming up my news feeds. It's like every bad movie I've ever put 40 minutes into, and I hate it and just want to skip to the ending. But alas, there's always someone else watching, and I don't get my way so I just have to sit and let the movie insult me, or walk away altogether.
0 Replies
 
 

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