Politics, friends, lovers & significant others.

I didn't think that brawling & character assassination was on the agenda here at all, Set. I was asking how important political compatibility was in folks' most important relationships. Anyway, if it's ill-bred to discuss politics with close friends, lovers & significant others, what IS it OK to talk about?

Since it's become whether it's an American thing or not, I'll say that my own experience is very different from Set's. I can't imagine completely not talking about politics with someone I'm voluntarily close to.

I mentioned my father-in-law, that's a little different because we know we have different political views and that we are both passionate about those views, so we feint a bit to see if anything's changed (not that we really expect it has) and then leave it at that.

And for at least a while in most any new acquaintance it's fine to just chat about this and that before getting into politics.

But with every good friend I have, politics have come up as part of the process of becoming a good friend rather than a casual acquaintance. The "right" answer is not a condition of friendship, mind you, just that it's a layer of intimacy -- the way in which a person responds is probably more important than the content. I definitely have been relieved when a promising person turns out to also share my politics... our old friends the across-the-street neighbors seemed really conservative and I put off the political discussion for a long time because I didn't want to know anything that might impact our growing friendship, and it was definitely a "whew!" moment when they turned out to be pretty much as liberal/ green as us. Just a matter of comfort level.

But we did have the discussion.

E.G. is reading over my shoulder and just piped up with, "I don't think there is anybody that we know -- good friends or casual acquaintances -- who we aren't aware of their political and religious beliefs."

I'm trying to think of any statement of political belief that would put me off. I seem to be having a hard time coming up with anyone who would say something truly offensive and who didn't already have other problems. I.e., I can think of someone who called people "niggers", but this person was also extremely passive-aggressive and generally unpleasant -- not someone I would want to be friends with anyway.

This might be analagous -- I had an employee who I also got along with well who was convinced that the platypus proved that the theory of evolution was a sham. He argued his case in a friendly and courteous way, but that one thing caused me to distrust him in a fundamental way. We remained friendly, he even came to visit me in Chicago after I moved, I'd consider him a friend -- but there is definitely a barrier there.

Anyway, this is kind of rambling, the main point I meant to make is that while some general statements about "Americans" have been made, as an American my experience has been different. Lots of political discussions with lots of people in lots of social situations (from neighbors to pillow talk).

Yes, that's pretty much how I feel, too, sozobe. Political compatibility takes the friendship to a stronger & deeper level.

I was talking about brawling and character assassination in an historical context, and it was an ironically humorous remark--although, of course, it ya gotta 'splain it, it ain't funny.

What's OK to talk about? Everything else . . .

Like any other kind of compatibility, I'd imagine. Not that I want to be friends with carbon copies of myself, and that's where I get a little uneasy in this discussion -- I much prefer to interact with a variety of people who have a variety of opinions and experiences.

But I think at some level a close friendship or relationship is just plain about compatibility. Opposites may have great sex, but true opposites -- not just on one issue but those who don't share a sense of humor, or core values, or religion, or whatever -- would seem to have to put a lot more work into co-existing.

Not so for acquaintances/ casual friends, and I think it is valuable to have a lot of variety/ diversity there.

I'd have to agree with some of what Soz says . . . Hell, i've even had women as friends, from time to time . . .

I've been thinking that maybe California is different than the east of the US in this business of not talking politics, or perhaps just this small city.

As a person in a new city afresh in the late nineties, I have to say I know a lot about what various acquaintances think about some political issues - not so much from long discussions, as they have been acquaintances on the way to being friends, doctors, people who come into the gallery and start talking with me, the guy at the grocery co-op who always asks me how I am - but from short comments in the context of a general conversation, sometimes little, out of the blue, clues. Conversely, I don't know as much about people's religions or even sex lives. I'll hear a snippet of politics first.

Yes! That's what I was thinking, sozobe. Who wants to have to work so hard to maintain a very close relationship? Editing important stuff out of talk constantly & having to count to 10 often to avoid possible conflict? And just how close IS that relationship when convictions that are important to you are not part of the package? This sort of approach reminds me of one of those "golden rules" of polite behavior when I was growing up: Never talk sex or politics at a dinner party!

What a silly golden rule--never talk religion or politics at a dinner party. Talk sex for hours on end, the fascination with which you will be treated will more than make up for the frustration of not being able to preach.

OK. It's hard to tell sometimes. I thought you were making a serious point.

I'm taking about "polite society" when I was growing up, Setanta! Not now. I thought it was silly too. It was NOT "the done thing"!

Hang on! It was "sex, politics AND religion"! All no nos back then!

What a buncha blue stockings . . . spreading the dirt about people's sexual peccadillos is an old and hoary tradition of society . . .

Yes, often simply in the context of discussing the news, osso. It happens often.

Lol - all three of the "no-noes" are frequently discussed at MY dinner parties.

Well, we know about YOUR dinner parties, Deb!!!!!

Oz polite society must have been fascinating in the 50s & 60s.

Oh Yeah . . . like watchin' paint dry . . .

I guess if someone's political views were abhorrent to me (like Rush Limbaugh ) I would never get close enough to them to be friends or in a relationship. However, I have had friends and lovers with very different views than me and its only lead to some interesting conversations and pillowtalk, respectively.

Probably very similar to the US during the same period?




<ducks & quickly flees from thread!>

Very much . . . although the so-fisty-cats in New York and Los Angeles would have claimed otherwise . . .