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Tue 23 Aug, 2005 12:36 am
How important are your political convictions when you you choose partners & friends?
Is it important that your political views are compatable?
Would you not take up the option of a relationship despite widely differing political positions with the other person/s?
Can a relationship/friendship of "political opposites" work?
I ask these questions because my political commitments have been very important to me in my adult life. Most (though not all) of my friends & significant others have generally shared the same convictions, though that was not necessarily the reason why the friendships/relationships developed in the first place. However, on the whole, the friendships that have lasted have tended to be those with like-minded folk.
I'd be interested in hearing the views from all sides of the A2K political spectrum. And to hear your stories & anecdotes.
The impact of politics on peoples' lives fascinates me!
OK, me first, I guess ....
Most of my active political involvement during my working life has centred around trade unionism. So I guess it's not surprising that the circles I mixed in were rather "left" in nature. I was thinking about this the other day & realized that: I married a union official. I had a 20 year relationship with someone I had worked very closely with on a particular union/political project. My closest & longest-standing friend is W, who I met in one of my first job placements, at a time union activity was extremely pronounced in our area of work - revolving around conditions reform. To this day I can be 100% certain that our responses to almost any political situation will be almost identical.
I hadn't realized that political identity had played such an enormous role on the nature of my life, friendships & entanglements till I sat down & thought about it the other day. It is almost as if I'd programmed myself! I wonder who I missed out on getting to know as a result?
Gotta go now. Be back later. I hope there's a post or two by then!
Hi, MsO.
I have friends of all sorts of political persuasions. Some tend to be downright reactionary, but they're very nice people otherwise. I have this "people pleasing" tendency to be always ready to listen to someone else's opinion even if I disagree with that opinion vehemently. I'm a free-thinker when it comes to religious matters but one of my oldest and very closest friends is a "born-again" Christian who takes the Bible literally and doesn't subscribe to evolutionary theory. We are extremely good friends; we just, as a rule, don't discuss religion.
So much for friendships. Now, as for lovers . . . my word! It never occurred to me that sexual attraction had any connection whatsoever with political beliefs. My first wife was an absolute Communist at a time when I could barely be described as borderline liberal (in the American sense of the word). You don't talk politics in bed. I don't, anyway.
I don't canvass political opinions in such matters--i would consider that ludicrous. Anyone so militantly political that i would know their political views upon a casual introduction is not someone whom i would likely become much acquainted with--which holds true for me regardless of their political stripe, i don't care for fanaticism. And its not just in politics that this holds true. Once i met a woman who was atheist, and mentioned it. In a very little time, i discovered that she was militantly atheist, very nearly a proseletizing atheist, and a worshipper of science from near superstitious ignorance. It was all too much for me--we drifted apart.
One of my best friends is a political conservative who admires Bush. He is my freind because of the content of his character, to use Mr. King's excellent phrase. As it happens, he is also one of the most vehemently anti-religious people i know. I never bring up the subject with him, and hope that no one else does. The mere thought of religion enrages him, and he will go off on priests, ministers and churches at the drop of a hat. So, as with all social situations, i avoid discussions of politics or religion--which is simple good taste in any event.
I could not be the lover of a fanatic in politics or religion. I have not, however, any more than with those who are simply friends, canvassed the politics or religion of those with whom i would be intimate. I was becoming close with a woman in 1980 when she turned, seemingly overnight, into a rah-rah supporter of Reagan. I voted for John Anderson in that election, and mistrusted Reagan--it was only later that i came to despise him. By election day, she would not look at me or speak to me; which in the event, was fine by me. When the heat of the election season cooled, she thought better of her near hysteria and made new approaches. I was no longer interested. My sweetiepie and i think much alike on social and spiritual matters, but that was not the source of our attraction, and it will never be the source of fidelity. As in the parlor, in the bedroom, discussions of politics or religion are in very poor taste.
Merry Andrew wrote:Now, as for lovers . . . my word! It never occurred to me that sexual attraction had any connection whatsoever with political beliefs. My first wife was an absolute Communist at a time when I could barely be described as borderline liberal (in the American sense of the word). You don't talk politics in bed. I don't, anyway.
No, you generally don't talk politics in bed, right! But it has been done, you know!
But, you know, I'd find someone who say, felt vehemently that it was every Australian's right to own a gun, so alien to the way I see things that I doubt we'd have very much in common. Or say, in 1975, if I can across someone who strongly believed that the Governor General was right to sack the Whitlam government, I doubt we'd form a friendship because we'd see things so differently. I doubt the difference would be restricted to those particular issues. I guess see "politics" as more than just supporting a particular party line, but an indication of how a person might view the world & the principals by which they live their lives.
Lordy - I so DO talk politics - and religion - and any damn thing from quarks to quicksand to quaggas to oral-sadism and the vegetarian personality to Pooh Bear to the Perseid Cluster to whether underwhelmed is a word.
I can have a friendship or a passionate romance with a rightwing person - but not, I think, a lasting relationship - at least I never have...
I've had friends of many persuasions, politically and on religion.
We had friends in one neighborhood that actually took the time last year to build a website, organize a group and spent weekends doing the swiftboat thing. I was more friends with the wife than the husband, who was the one up in arms about the whole thing.
A few attempts were made to discuss, share information, but led nowhere. Much like A2K on the same subject.
Now that I think about it, many friends are likely Bush supporters / republicans. But, I don't talk politics with them. They are all upper middle class, and southern so I don't know if their views are based on family history or having developed a political view on their own despite their age.
I grew up in the midwest. Missouri is a red state, but my friends/ their families there were Dems, and all were lower middle to middle class. Not sure if that makes a difference. But it appeared to me that it did as I developed my political views.
Setanta wrote:i don't care for fanaticism.
Neither do I. Very unappealing, dealing with fanatics! But that wasn't what I meant.
But you know, I find the idea of political & moral conviction downright appealing. Sexy even! :wink: But that doesn't mean the person who holds those convictions is necessarily a crank! I mean in the sense of living one's life adhering to certain principles that one believes in.
I'll add, due to the current atmosphere here, that all of my Dem friends and their families as I was growing up went to church on a regular basis. They were Baptist, Methodist and Catholic Democrats.
(See, it's possible to have "Christian values" AND be a Democrat.)
That was actually rather confusing to me as I became more politically active as an adult. The defining of what each party stood for seemed backwards to me because I saw the Democrats as more in keeping with the teachings of Christ, but somehow Republicans were getting the backing of major evangelists.
dlowan wrote:Lordy - I so DO talk politics - and religion - and any damn thing from quarks to quicksand to quaggas to oral-sadism and the vegetarian personality to Pooh Bear to the Perseid Cluster to whether underwhelmed is a word.
I can have a friendship or a passionate romance with a rightwing person - but not, I think, a lasting relationship - at least I never have...
Yes!
... And I doubt that a lasting relationship with a rampant rightwinger is possible .. well, for me, anyway. Too much conflict!
msolga wrote:Setanta wrote:i don't care for fanaticism.
Neither do I. Very unappealing, dealing with fanatics! But that wasn't what I meant.
But you know, I find the idea of political & moral conviction downright appealing. Sexy even! :wink: But that doesn't mean the person who holds those convictions is necessarily a crank! I mean in the sense of living one's life adhering to certain principles that one believes in.
Yeppers.
Like - imagine being lovers with someone who believed in replacing proper sex education with abstinence only stuff , especially in the third world, or believed that non christians (or Muslims or whatever) will go to hell - or who is against equal rights for gay people - or that women should not have equal rights - really right wing or fundamentalist crap.
I just could not respect such a person'a principles enough for any long term intimacy - it would be similar in principled living terms, to me, as being a liar, or racist etc.
I do not mean I do not respect that they, like I, believe in their principles, but I cannot respect the principles.
I can work with them (though I don't, as it happens - not since cleaning and waitressing days) - be friendly neighbours - be respectful to them as clients - but there is a line...
squinney wrote:I've had friends of many persuasions, politically and on religion.
We had friends in one neighborhood that actually took the time last year to build a website, organize a group and spent weekends doing the swiftboat thing. I was more friends with the wife than the husband, who was the one up in arms about the whole thing.
A few attempts were made to discuss, share information, but led nowhere. Much like A2K on the same subject.
Now that I think about it, many friends are likely Bush supporters / republicans. But, I don't talk politics with them. They are all upper middle class, and southern so I don't know if their views are based on family history or having developed a political view on their own despite their age.
I grew up in the midwest. Missouri is a red state, but my friends/ their families there were Dems, and all were lower middle to middle class. Not sure if that makes a difference. But it appeared to me that it did as I developed my political views.
Interesting, squinney. The idea of political views being divorced, somehow, from interaction with people is a rather foreign one, in Oz, I think. (What do you reckon, Deb?) At work, in casual conversations, just going about my daily business, political discussion is, well, just a normal part of the proceedings. Not always, deep & meaningful, mind, but there ...
Yes - politics is talked a lot.
Not, I think, very intensely in situations where people must get along no matter what - and I have certainly been friends with people with views very divergent from mine - but certainly politics tends not to be a major no go areas.
But - in a big group of my friends - the union and politician crowd - it is a constant topic of discussion and passionate argument....in other groups it is far less commonly discussed - but certainly discussed.
Squinney
You know, in Oz, very few people are actively religious. I don't know one solitary person who is. I find the very strong connections between religion & politics in the US fascinating. And quite frightening too, right now. It is so different to my reality & my understanding of politics. In a way, I think for many committed political folk here, politics IS their religion.
My best friend and I couldn't be more different when it comes to politics. We just choose not to talk about it.
My husband and I are pretty close in terms of political views but it wasn't intentional. At least, I don't think it was.....
dlowan wrote:Like - imagine being lovers with someone who believed in replacing proper sex education with abstinence only stuff , especially in the third world, or believed that non christians (or Muslims or whatever) will go to hell - or who is against equal rights for gay people - or that women should not have equal rights - really right wing or fundamentalist crap.
I just could not respect such a person'a principles enough for any long term intimacy - it would be similar in principled living terms, to me, as being a liar, or racist etc.
I do not mean I do not respect that they, like I, believe in their principles, but I cannot respect the principles.
I can work with them (though I don't, as it happens - not since cleaning and waitressing days) - be friendly neighbours - be respectful to them as clients - but there is a line...
Yes, that's exactly as I see it, Deb. It's to do with principles, the way one lives one's life as well as beliefs. (I keep getting the impression that we & a number of the US posters are talking about rather different things by the term politics.)
I don't know that Bear and I really talked politics while daating. We knew what each believed as far as the items dlowan mentioned. And, I can see how that would mean politics here, too.
But, remember that we weren't a polarized country with the marked political atmosphere back then. We had friends then that were staunchly Southern Baptist in their raising of their children and were quite vocal about what schools should / shouldn't teach. Those things were / are discussed among friends. But it wasn't associated at the time with a political party, support of the president or support of our troops / patriotism.
That is a new development in my observation.
Bella Dea wrote:My best friend and I couldn't be more different when it comes to politics. We just choose not to talk about it.
Bella Dea
Do you think there'd be a problem if you did talk about it?
Great topic msolga!
I have friends who are very liberal, and I have friends who
are conservative. I try not to mix them together and we rarely discuss politics.
Now in a relationship I need to have some compatibility in politics and religion or rather the absence of religion. With
politics comes usually an entire lifestyle. I could
not live with someone who is extremley right wing, or a fundamential christian who opposes "pro choice" and other issues that are important to me. Mostly politics and religion tie in together, and I need to be on the same page with my partner on the issues that are very crucial to me.
Strangely enough, I've never had a relationship where either politics
or religion was a cause of friction.
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