Politics, friends, lovers & significant others.

So? Again - where am I saying I would have a Stalinist etc as a long term lover?

The coms here were mainly just dogged activists in the labour movement and all other areas of political life - as they still are.

There were certainly lots of idiots who mouthed whatever the international party told them to - and lots of - mainly - middle class kids who mouthed all types of ****.


I - and most of my friends - are where we always were - wishy washy social democrats. Only now lots of the others have joined us.




What's yer point?


I generally prefer lefties to righties. I don't like extremists of either side.


The righties just happen to be the ones making all the noise right now, so I think of them.


But - Nimh - you and others take the high road, and I will stumble along in the mud.

But - I still despise people who think in terms like nigger, kike, towel-head etc. - unless they have had no opportunity to think otherwise. That does NOT include most people I come across.

I won't have as a partner someone who thinks it's ok to invade another country based on a whole lot of lies and defends it after the lies are exposed, because they feel like it - whether they be left or right - or someone who defends unspeakable torture. I won't have as a partner - or intimate friend - someone who blames gays and feminists for 9/11, or speaks of anti-christs or infidels, or calls for the deaths of those who disagree with them.


I can like some of 'em well enough - though, for the real extremists, who have had the chance to see other points of view and havve not, themselves, lived lives of trauma and deprivation, I cannot respect their thinking, and that is important to me - but intimate friends? Like I said - that is down time.

Simple difference in political party is not what I am getting at here.
I guess I am an inferior life form.

So be it - I find life as a bottom feeder quoite foine, thankee.

BBB
bm

Perhaps i'm misreading your tone, Miss Wabbit, but i think you misjudge Habibi. He does like to ride his high horse, but personally, i see that as a sign that he has not fully matured. Longer acquaintance has given me the notion that he's not as wild-eyed a radical as he likes to portray himself. I think he's in the "regretting lost youth" stage of his life right now, and tends to express himself more forcefully than he actually feels about things.

Of course, i could be completely wrong. Carrots are to be found in the mud, n'est-ce pas? I like it in mud because i can sniff around and dig.

Huh?

I am just responding to those who see political differences as immaterial - and seem to see finding them not so as ethically inferior.

Nimh can say what he wants - it's just an argument.

I am a little heated - but not disconcerted or discombobulated.

I am a little cross, but mainly ironical.

<loitering around in hopes of making some money on a dust-up>

So, then, your backside must be hot cross buns, eh?

Don't feel too bad, the Sweetiepie Girl threw me quite a curve ball . . . but i stick with my basic assessment--i can't abide fanaticism, but otherwise consider discussions of politics or religion to be in poor taste in social situations. I cannot think of a situation more social than being in bed with someone, in the literal as opposed to the figurative sense. (And i am so opposed to being in bed in just a figurative sense.)

I have to wash the lightener out of my strands, condition my hair, and go to the post office.

Just another day in the life of a left wing ideologue...sigh.

No time for dust-ups - the movement calls......


(Where DID I put my lippy.........?)

Lol - and I LOVE political pillow talk!!!

Especially if there is disagreement but respect - and hopefully I get to learn something.


I have had the GREATEST sex after a political bunfight!

Like - after the famous breadcrock war.....heehee....


One of my toughest left friends (she is a politician, now) had a blazing affair with a Liberal (the RIGHT here, ok?) luminary - best ever sex, she said.....especially after a good dust-up.


He was a honey, though - despite his politics - lol!

Thats my rule too. I might mention it very casually, saying something like "how 'bout that Bush. If they go on a crazy rant to far on the other side. I talk a little bit longer then excuse myself. Why waste each others time.

You keep mentioning a breadcrock . . . what in the name of all that's hole-y is a breadcrock ? ! ? ! ?

Is that a crock in which bread is baked?

Is that a crock in which bread is stored?


Fortunately, Esse, when my Sweetiepie and i hooked up, the Shrub was not yet Imperator . . . and she's from a different country, anyway . . .

I'll tell you when I get home.....

Hmmm.


Do I need to get rid of my forty year friend whose opinions are opposites of mine?
No, from my pov.

I suppose if it ever comes to war, I'll be hiding behind the opposite unplugged refrigerator, trying to get my zephyr belt on straight...

Many people including Craven tell us it ain't all left right any more.

Personally, I think y'all are placing waaayy too much emphasis on political beliefs. In my social circles politics just doesn't come up all that much. Nor religion. I couldn't care less what party somebody votes for as long as he/she is a decent person in terms of inter-personal relationships.

(arriving late, after the dust has settled...)

I agree with Deb on this one. I couldn't live with a neo con, either. Or someone who called other folk "towel heads", or someone who believes that Oz should go all the way with the USA , etc, etc ... For starters, they'd probably TALK about their views. Something that I'd find very difficult to cope with. I don't think that has much to do with feeling "superior". It has more to do with sometimes simply feeling offended by the views that the person holds.

One thing that really interests me.: Some of the poster here who have most strongly advocated the notion of divorcing political discussion from relationships are some of the most passionate posters in A2K political debate. My confusion is this: how do you divorce an aspect of yourself (that you obviously feel so passionate about) in your interactions with significant folk in your life? Don't misunderstand, I'm not having a go at you, but how do you do that? My most strongly held political views are well, just part of me. They matter to me. Not expressing those views or editing them out of a friendship or close relationship would feel rather unnatural. Like only partially being yourself in the relationship. Now I can do that fairly easily in a relationship that doesn't matter, but in an important, up close & personal relationship? No.

In my daily life, the topics of religion or politics rarely come up, almost never. If others bring them up, i ignore them, because as i've mentioned, it is not good manners to discuss those topics in polite society--everyone knows of the passionate convictions which can overwhelm someone who would otherwise be quite well behaved.

So, i consider it ill-bred to discuss such matters except in a venue such as this. I rather suspect, however, that other aspects of personality would preclude my forming too close a personal relationship with someone who passionately held beliefs diametrically opposed to mine. Were that not so, i would even more assiduously avoid such discussions in view of the relationship.

I could love a commie or a nazi, i just couldn't talk to her about it.

Blimey Set - that sounds more as though you move in some circles where people cannot discuss those topics and remain civilised, than that it is wrong to discuss them. There are certainly people I have to get along with with whom I would not discuss politics because it would just make life difficult. They are not good friends, though. I like aspects of them.

And I have friends at work who I know vote Liberal (right) - but they are not racist etc.

I see these as some of the key topics TO discuss - as one becomes more intimate with someone.

I feel just like Msolga does - how COULD you not end up discussing those things? For me it would be like not discussing the books I love, or the air I breathe, or how one ought to live one's life, or anything that is is deeply important to me.


Baffled Down Under.

Added: It can't just be an American/Australian thing - cos I have discussed politics with a number of Americans here I have actually spoken with. Fought about 'em for hours and hours with Craven, for example - well, the economic aspects.

I am still wondering if you people are talking strictly party politics - cos a number of you keep saying stuff like "it doesn't matter who someone votes for as long as they are decent in their personal dealings" or something like that.

Msolga and I are talking way more basic beliefs than that.

Like - you anti-political discussion folk would not be put off if someone you were becoming close to spoke of towel-heads or niggers? Or spoke of how it was better to lose Iraqi/Vietnamese/reactionary/etc lives than those to whom the speaker was affiliated?

I dunno. Maybe it's a case of East is East and West is West -- or, in this case, Podes is Podes and Antipodes, Antipodes. Because, being American, I totally empathize with Set. Politicas and religion are two topics not generally brought up in casual polite conversation unless one is at a political function of some sort or at a religious worship service or similar gathering at a place of worship. People speak of what they are reading or have recently read, what films to go to, sporting events etc. Or just plain gossip about people we know in common.

But we are not TALKING of "casual, polite conversation!"

We are talking good friends and lovers and life partners!!!!!

Chill, Coney . . . here, have a carrot . . .

You know, our nation was founded as a pluralistic state at a time when nations were not commonly tolerant of differing religious dogma, and a secular state at a time when most nations had a religious establishment. It's entirely possible that that situation, unique in the English-speaking world long after the foundation of the United States, meant that people instinctively avoided topics which could bring up social anguish. During the revivalist craze of the early 18th century, the so-called "Great Awakening," although most colonists were not affected, the divide in New England and parts of New York and Pennsylvania was deep and very bitter. The divide went right down the middle of communities in which there was an established religion. In Massachusetts or Connecticutt, one could be Congregationalist, and still not know if a casual remark to another Congregationalist might not spark a nasty argument.

As far as politics are concerned, brawling and character assassination are both parts of a long and cherished tradition. All in all, i'd say that Americans consider it ill-bred to discuss those subjects in polite conversation.

<thinking>

When I talk about "politics", I'm not just talking about discussions I have with people. Talk. I'm talking about principles by which try to I live my life. How I choose to act & live. It is not just about voting, or holding a particular position about political parties, etc. It is (sorry if this sounds corny) trying to live by the values I believe in. This can take many forms. For example, withdrawing my labour when my employer (the government) attempts to implement policy that I (& other like-minded people in our union) believe are detrimental to the best interests of the children we're responsible for. It can be something like demonstrating in a mass demonstration to tell our government that we do not wish our country to be involved in the invasion of Iraq. It can mean writing to the newspaper about some issue at local, national or international level. Or even simpler things, like choosing to purchase free range eggs, as a preferable alternative to the hideously cruel "battery chicken" practices. It can be a belief that men & women should be equal in the workplace & in their personal relationships. There are so many other examples I can give. When I say "politics" I'm talking about values integral to my life. Not just things that I talk about with people, which matter sometimes, but not at other times. Of course I'm going to feel more in common with someone who shares these values & tries to live their life in adherence to similar beliefs.