Simply put, it is like this.
Human rights in Europe have the past and the present of having been saved through the help of the US.
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satt fs
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 03:48 pm
I cannot forget this. Europe has the past of colonialism, while the US has the history of independence from colonialism.
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Craven de Kere
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 03:58 pm
and...
What's your point?
Are you asserting that the US has a right to invade another nation for Human Rights reasons? That's what was being discussed.
Are you pulling an argumentum ad antiquitatem?
Someone contested the US right to wage war for human rights reasons, I personally would dispute some of the claims made but you are making precious little sense.
England tried to force Brazil to end slavery. Does that mean England has any indefinite rights to wage war in Brazil if slavery is involved?
Yes Europe has a past of colonialism and the US has a recent past of killing Indians, now we could sit around and make references to these irrelevant facts but it helps if you have a point somehwere. Say what you want about the heart of man but the heart of yesterday's man has nothing to do with today's man.
Are you basically saying that you had no point but felt the need to remember some things?
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satt fs
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 04:05 pm
Quote:
Are you asserting that the US has a right to invade another nation for Human Rights reasons?
Actually this type of question is classified as a false dichotomy in debate. For such a question one should not answer in the form of "yes" or "no", because it is a form of a trap.
Mainly I am talking to frolic, and I am letting him (or her) be reminded of the basic knowledge about the history of Europe and the US.
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Craven de Kere
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 04:09 pm
It's not a complex question, it's a question directly pertaining to what was being discussed. I also never asked for a yes or no answer.
But you have answered, you were just reminding frolic.
I doubt you'll have your desired effect.
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Walter Hinteler
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 04:10 pm
satt_focusable wrote:
Mainly I am talking to frolic, and I am letting him (or her) be reminded of the basic knowledge about the history of Europe and the US.
You certainly remember that European history started a couple of years before US history? And that the beginning of US history and the first some dozen years could be European influenced as well?
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satt fs
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 04:14 pm
I know that Europe has a long history of squeezing (or extraction) from South America, too.
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PDiddie
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 05:40 pm
'Bush cancelled the Easter Egg hunt on the lawn of the White House. His people were afraid that, like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, the Easter Eggs would turn out to be something else that Bush can't find."
-- Bill Maher
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cicerone imposter
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 07:12 pm
I didn't realize until my visit to Puerto Madryn, Chile and Argentina that so many Germans lived there. That Punta Bellena was settled by the Welsh, and that Buenos Aires has a Italian settlement called "La Boca." c.i.
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Mr Stillwater
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Tue 22 Apr, 2003 08:06 pm
How absolutely bizarre. For 400 years the United States has happily snapped up any bits of Empire it could, by any means it could. Human rights in Europe never entered into the equation.
In WW1 the aim was to kick the crap out of the Kaiser, go home ASAP and leave the locals to their squabbling as it wasn't America's problem. Up to WW2 the US recognised and supported the activities of the Falange (Spain). the Fascists (Italy) and the Nazis (Germany) in trade and diplomatic missions. THEY were the ones who where going to strike at the heart of the Soviet Union and crush godless Communism!. Human rights for the citizens of these regimes? F**k that!
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frolic
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 01:16 am
satt_focusable wrote:
Quote:
Mainly I am talking to frolic, and I am letting him (or her) be reminded of the basic knowledge about the history of Europe and the US.
1)You forgot some key elements in European History. Magna Carta, Glorious Revolution, Habeas Corpus,... have lead the way for democracy. The French Revolution,... All those events are important for the way we think about politics and democracy nowadays. Nazism and Fascism have reigned for about 12 years. Not really a huge period in European History.
Like i already tried to make clear=>all the great thinkers came from Europe.
BTW, Europe ruled the waves for about 500 years. The US is a very young worldpower. Whats 100 years in worldhistory? You have to make conclusions at the end.
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satt fs
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 01:32 am
frolic..
You are confusing the continent and england.
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frolic
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 01:41 am
??????=>you talked about Europe
Europe= Britain + the Continent.
BTW, you cant seperate them because the countries influenced eachother. Famous thinkers travelled from France to England and vica versa.
Form my part= End of useless discussion. Back on topic!
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satt fs
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 03:02 am
Europe has a plenty of good things, in multiple aspects. I do not dispute about that point. I have been concentrating on who mainly have rescued Europeans from crises in human rights in Europe, until 1990's from the beginning of the last century.
"Back on topic." Well, I will keep silence in this thread for a while until WMDs are discovered. If they were not discovered, it would be good by itself.
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Walter Hinteler
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 09:14 am
satt_focusable wrote:
Europe has a plenty of good things, in multiple aspects. I do not dispute about that point. I have been concentrating on who mainly have rescued Europeans from crises in human rights in Europe, until 1990's from the beginning of the last century.
Whern you had said this earlier, no-one would have started to discuss about it.
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satt fs
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 05:14 pm
Actually, politics in Europe of the last century was a crap.
(I am not talking about cultural aspects. If you need this restriction.)
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dyslexia
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 07:01 pm
Europe can't be all bad, Italy has survived as an anarchy for over 300 years.
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satt fs
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 07:06 pm
Statements like "Europe can't be all bad" or "I am not all bad" do not convey much information.
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dyslexia
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Wed 23 Apr, 2003 07:10 pm
sorry, i thought a little humour might be in order. But thats ok, i am often wrong.
c.i.
