What Noble Cause Did Casey Sheehan Die For?

Seems like he wants to kill you, Tico.

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I argue with BPB and then Bernie, and they each have to go to the hospital. I'm not taking any chances with dys. Very Happy

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Remind me not to cross you, too.

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so is that a no Tico? I realize your animosity towards me, goes both ways, on the other hand why not duke it out?

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dyslexia wrote:

so is that a no Tico? I realize your animosity towards me, goes both ways, on the other hand why not duke it out?

My animosity towards you, dys, to the extent it exists, stems solely from your obvious animosity towards me.

Feel free to start any thread you want.

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This person didn't DIE for the war in Iraq. It may be being spun that way, but he risked his life and died tring to save a others.

If a fireman die trying to save a child would you say that it was not death for a noble cause even if the fire was started by an badly wired plug?

What the differnce between a noble act and an horable act?

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Good points, tg.

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kickycan wrote:

Lash wrote:
Kicky--

Cutting the theatre for a minute--I do believe that anyone who tries to blame the war, 911 or a laundry list of other stuff on Jews or Israel is a Jew hater--and I'm shocked and very worried at how many are crawling out of the woodwork. She is one of them.

Again, what was the specific thing she said that makes her a Jew-hater in your mind? Did she say "Jews suck." or "I hate Jews."?

This always causes me confusion. I don't want to create some sort of thread drift and perhaps a new thread is warranted but since this came up in the context of Cindy Sheehan and it appears to be yet another smear attack on her I will make my point.

If I disagree with Ariel Sharon's government policies and that of Likud does that make me a Jew hater? Am I an anti-Semite? I think not. It means I disagree with a particular nation's government's policies.

If I admire Shimon Peres and the Israeli Labour Party (which I do), does that mean I am a supporter of Jews or Judaism? I don't think so. It means I agree with the policies of the Labour Party in Israel.

If I say I disagree with Zionism does that make me a Jew-hater or simply someone who isn't at all enamoured with the ideas behind Zionism?

I'm trying to read and understand Straussianism at the moment because it seems to me that if I am going to understand what drives these Straussian neo-cons I have to go to their philosophical father. But does that make me a Jew-hater or an anti-Semite?

Cindy Sheehan or anyone else should be free to disagree with the Israeli government's policies, heck heaps of Israelis do, so does that make them Jew haters?

This is just another smear against Cindy Sheehan. It should be seen that way. When she's arrested for spraying anti-Jewish graffiti on the wall of a Synagogue I'll be convinced she's anti-Jew until then I'm convinced that it's just anoter case of smearing against her.

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And when someone's "disagreement" with those "Israeli government's policies" include the policy of having their country in "the land of Palestine," does your theory still hold? They don't hate jews and jews being in Palestine, they just disagree with the Israeli government's policies?

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Ticomaya wrote:

Good points, tg.

I disagree, most decidedly.

terrygallagher wrote:

This person didn't DIE for the war in Iraq. It may be being spun that way, but he risked his life and died tring to save a others.

The first statement is an unsupported, and in my view, unsupportable attempt by TG to beg the question of the thread. The object of Chrissee's question was to know what answer Bush or those who support him might give as to the nature of the war, not the specific act in which Mr. Sheehan lost his life. Were there no war, Mr. Sheehan would not have faced a situation in which he felt he should risk his life trying to save others. Therefore, a justified question is why Mr. Sheehan was obliged to go in harm's way at all; what about this war makes his sacrifice justified.

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Well said, GF.

Where on earth does this stuff about Sheehan being a jew hater come from?

Some cites would be helpful.

And - of course we can die bravely and well - nobly if you wanna call it that - in a stupid, wrong and evil war.

People do it all the time, bless 'em.

And the opposite.

The wrongness of the war has no effect on our merits in saving, or trying to, some other poor bastards - or in showing courage.

The courage and such has no effect, either, on the wrongness of the war.

I think to argue otherwise is showing woeful confusion of thought.

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I can't say what thoughts went through Chrissee's mind when she titled her thread, but the answer given by tg is a good one. The specific act in which Casey Sheehan lost his life was a noble act; his was a noble cause. If Chrissee intended to ask a different question, then she should have done so.

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goodfielder wrote:

kickycan wrote:
Lash wrote:
Kicky--

Cutting the theatre for a minute--I do believe that anyone who tries to blame the war, 911 or a laundry list of other stuff on Jews or Israel is a Jew hater--and I'm shocked and very worried at how many are crawling out of the woodwork. She is one of them.

Again, what was the specific thing she said that makes her a Jew-hater in your mind? Did she say "Jews suck." or "I hate Jews."?

This always causes me confusion. I don't want to create some sort of thread drift and perhaps a new thread is warranted but since this came up in the context of Cindy Sheehan and it appears to be yet another smear attack on her I will make my point.

If I disagree with Ariel Sharon's government policies and that of Likud does that make me a Jew hater? Am I an anti-Semite? I think not. It means I disagree with a particular nation's government's policies.
Of course not. This line is used quite frequently to avoid the central question.

If I admire Shimon Peres and the Israeli Labour Party (which I do), does that mean I am a supporter of Jews or Judaism? I don't think so. It means I agree with the policies of the Labour Party in Israel.
It also means you aren't an anti-Semite to me, because if you were, you wouldn't be able to find the Israeli Labor Party acceptable, unless they advocate policies you feel or hope will damage Israel of Jewish people in general.
If I say I disagree with Zionism does that make me a Jew-hater or simply someone who isn't at all enamoured with the ideas behind Zionism?
Again. This is used often. You can despise the idea of Zionism on principle and not be a "Jew-hater". However, IMO most who feel that way ARE primarily motivated by racism. The Zionism question isn't, IMO, a determining factor, but often one of a few possible indicators.
Cindy Sheehan or anyone else should be free to disagree with the Israeli government's policies, heck heaps of Israelis do, so does that make them Jew haters?
That is not what I take issue with. Have you read what she's said? This is beside the point of why people consider Sheehan a racist.
This is just another smear against Cindy Sheehan. It should be seen that way. When she's arrested for spraying anti-Jewish graffiti on the wall of a Synagogue I'll be convinced she's anti-Jew until then I'm convinced that it's just anoter case of smearing against her.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I did want you to know your questions mischaracterized my issues with her, as well as others'.

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Ticomaya wrote:

I can't say what thoughts went through Chrissee's mind when she titled her thread, but the answer given by tg is a good one. The specific act in which Casey Sheehan lost his life was a noble act; his was a noble cause. If Chrissee intended to ask a different question, then she should have done so.

Nonsense, her opening post reads:

Quote:

Bush won't answer it so maybe his supporters can.

This thread is posted in the Politics forum. To suggest that such a pat answer addresses the intent of a thread in Politics regarding the response of a President to the death of a soldier in a war for which said President is responsible is absurd.

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Lash - interesting points. I'm not accusing you of smearing Cindy Sheehan. I need to get that straight.

However I am sure she is being smeared though and I'm sure it's coming from the Bush cabal - the Administration all the associated think tanks and pressure groups as well as grassroots Republicans. - on and of course Fox News, musn't leave the propaganda channel out of my circle of blaming :wink:

This woman is hurting them and they're fighting back with smears.

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"Nonsense" right back at you, Set. It's a good answer to the question whether you want to admit it or not.

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No it's not Tico . . . a statement delivered with as much authority as yours . . . you claim its a good answer because you are just as eager to avoid the core question of the character of this war.

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The answer to the "core question of the character of this war" will not be answered in these fora. ... and has been the subject of innumerable threads. If that's the question, the anti-war folks will trot out their claims about war for oil, Bush lied, PNAC, yada yada; the pro-war people will remind you about Saddam, his lack of cooperation with WMD inspectors, his repeated violations of the treaty, his support of terrorism, his killing fields, etc.

The much simpler question, the one asked by Chrissee, has a better chance at being answered, although there will perhaps be disagreement.

Besides, in your first post in this thread you felt the speech given by Bush didn't mention Casey Sheehan's name, and thus couldn't answer the question. I fail to see how an answer to the "core question of the character of this war" will mention Casey Sheehan's name, and thus answer the question that was posed.

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No, in that post i was pointing out that Woiyo's use of the text of that speech as evidence of Bush having answered the question, when Sheehan's name is not mentioned, means that Woiyo suggests that the question is inferentially answered in the text of the speech.

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goodfielder wrote:

Lash - interesting points. I'm not accusing you of smearing Cindy Sheehan. I need to get that straight.

However I am sure she is being smeared though and I'm sure it's coming from the Bush cabal - the Administration all the associated think tanks and pressure groups as well as grassroots Republicans. - on and of course Fox News, musn't leave the propaganda channel out of my circle of blaming :wink:

This woman is hurting them and they're fighting back with smears.

I didn't feel you were making a personal accusation against me, but it would have been OK if you were. I likely need to redouble efforts to make it clear when I'm not personally angry, because I'm so plain- spoken, I'm mistaken for angry pretty often.

Let me start by asking you this: What is the difference in making truthful negative comments about someone--and smearing them?

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What Noble Cause Did Casey Sheehan Die For?

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