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Abortion Policy Proposal

 
 
ballast
 
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 06:39 am
Preface May 10th, 2020
As we all know, if, as widely anticipated, the Supreme Court overturns Rove v. Wade, it is not tantamount to banning abortion. It simply recognizes that in our federal system this is a policy decision to be left to the states. It is unlikely California will restrict abortion while Oklahoma or Texas might.
So, expecting debate about abortion policy to soon blossom in various state chambers, I offer an updated proposes abortion policy.

Abortion Policy Statement
While I recognize abortion as killing, infanticide, I also recognize that society sanctions killing in various contexts: soldiers, police officers, correctional officers, etc. are so sanctioned by our society. So I can support abortion rights but not as currently practiced. I believe we should recognize it as killing that is within the province of the mother but if the pregnancy is the result of consensual sex then the father’s rights should be respected as well. Thus when a woman becomes pregnant in that situation she can elect to carry it to birth or not. During the pregnancy, while she has the option for abortion, the father can elect to assume parental rights or not. If the father elects to reject parental rights then the mother assumes full responsibility for raising the child and the father has no child support obligations. If the mother cares not to raise the child but is willing to carry it to term if the father will assume parental responsibility she can choose to do so but is not obligated to do so. This is an important step in the evolution of abortion in society wherein we begin to treat women as equally capable and responsible.

In the case of a pregnancy resulting from non-consensual sex then if it is established through due process that the male is the aggressor then he will lose what rights he has as described above and may become liable for child support should the mother carry it to term. Similarly if it is established through due process that the female is the aggressor in she may or may not carry it to term but she has no call on the male for child support.

Henry Hazlitt’s single lesson on economics can apply in fashioning abortion policy:
“The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups.”
That seems relevant to things we might not necessarily consider economic policy, and the abortion policy explored herein certainly has economic implications.
And what likely effects can we anticipate should we bring a measure of egalitarianism to women’s and men’s reproductive rights? And what objections thereto?
Certainly there will be the leftist feminists who will decry it as some manner of oppression, if nothing else because that is the language of their agitation. What it does represent is a diminishment of the female’s one sided exercise of power in the prenatal relationship.
To what effect though will such a policy carry us?
Initially one might predict a flurry of post-coupling changes of mind resulting in accusations of rape. I’d have to guess that such a phenomenon would die down soon enough for a couple of reasons, one being that if the motivation is to secure child support obligations from the father it will become apparent that a father in prison, or even out but with a felony conviction, is a poor financial mark.
Another expected development would be a change in people’s behavior as the new policy seeps into the collective consciousness. One might suppose that either heterosexual promiscuity declines and/or greater care is taken in practicing birth control, both by women and men. An eventual aim would be that couples procreate with intent and a commitment to parenthood. Women would, it’s hoped, not engage in pregnancy producing behavior without some emotional investment on the part of both parties.
Alternatively it also seems possible that some women would accept the father not engaging and would then raise the child themselves with a preponderance of support coming from the government. Given a significant plurality of said situations, is it not conceivable that the government would be stimulated to absorb a parental role in addition to providing financial aid? A generation or two of G.I. babies…, hmm…, Brave New World anyone?
While this proposal does represent some diminishment of the female’s exercise of power in the prenatal relationship, she still has the ultimate decision as to whether to carry a pregnancy to term or not.
As with other changes to social policy that affect individuals’ significantly, it would have to be instituted on a from-this-point-forward basis, grandfathering the situations that developed prior.

Points to include:
1.) The mother is obligated to inform the father of the pregnancy in time for his choices to be made;
a.) If she fails to do so she loses the right to make any claim against the father;
b.) Unless it is demonstrable that communicating with the father in a timely fashion has been impossible;
c.) She also has a duty to be aware of her pregnancy in a timely manner
2.) Recently there have been attempts to create a legal safe haven for so-called live birth abortions – these are not acceptable as once the baby is breathing outside the womb he or she is unarguably a United States citizen with civil rights.
 
jespah
 
  7  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 07:29 am
@ballast,
1) Any requirements that action must wait for due process are effectively anti-choice because true due process (as in, defense hires a lawyer, a case or even just a motion is heard, decision, and its communication) will be too late at least half the time. Delays of any sort (vacations, Covid, can't find a lawyer, etc.) will be common because they are common in all other aspects of court practice.
2) Framing it as murder makes your biases and agenda exceptionally clear. This entire argument is just window dressing around that.
3) You're assuming birth control works perfectly all the time. It doesn't.
4) You're getting men off the hook by simply saying no to responsibility, whereas women are made to jump through hoops.
5) You're assuming people will develop prudent behaviors for an act (dating itself, not sex) which can often be accompanied by late nights, drinking, and partying, not to mention emotions in the mix. Assuming people will sit down and carefully discuss whether they're going to have sex amidst such an atmosphere is as unrealistic as having people in that situation put together IKEA furniture.
6) You're conveniently leaving out date rape, where people go into the experience with the best of intentions but are overcome, either physically or with roofies or just plain pressuring.
7) You're also conveniently leaving out condom ghosting.
8) You're also conveniently leaving out underage sex.
9) And incest.
10) And a terrifically effective and reversible form of birth control.

You want to stop abortions?

Then make vasectomies mandatory and only reverse them when the man has shown he will consensually and enthusiastically care for any ensuing children. Make parental responsibility opt-out rather than opt-in.

Oh, is this kind of a restriction on men's bodies bothering you?
ballast
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 10:01 am
@ jespah
1. Well what due process are we talking about?
2. What point are you trying to make?
3. No, I’m not assuming birth control works 100% of the time; if it fails, then you have a pregnancy to be dealt with as per the above.
4. How do you figure that? Women and men have equal responsibilities per the above.
5. Developing prudent behaviors is a potential benefit. Must we always assume people are incapable of responsibility?
6. Rape was definitely not left out.
7. The proposal addresses pregnancy, whether by deceit or not.
8. If a pregnancy is the result of underage sex, who is responsible for the baby?
9. See #7
10. I guess you’re referring to your last point. So if mandatory vasectomies and tubal ligations reversible only when the individual has shown he/she will consensually and enthusiastically care for any ensuing children is what it would take, would you accept this policy? I don’t really think it’s necessary, but…?
Make parental responsibility opt-out rather than opt-in. That’s one way of looking at it.

This really an attempt to further equality between the sexes, but ultimately nothing in the proposal would prevent a woman from aborting a pregnancy.
roger
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 10:32 am
@jespah,
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 11:01 am
@ballast,
You are making some pretty significant assumptions here. The first is that the man and woman are equal participants in a pregnancy. In reality, the man is almost completely irrelevant to pregnancy, only needed to provide a single cell. The significant health risks of pregnancy, the expenses and other impacts all fall to the woman. I don't know why you would consider them equal in terms of decision making. The second is that the state has a valid interest in involving itself in medical decisions regarding pregnancy. There is no need for a "proposal" because there is no need for government involvement. You also seem to regard pregnancy as punitive, as a punishment for having sex. That is really weird. If someone can't look forward with joy to bringing a child into the world, the idea that you would force them to do it anyway as some sort of punishment seems sadistic.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 11:18 am
@ballast,
Women and men do not have equal responsibilities.

It's her body, it's her choice.

End of.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 11:23 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:

Then make vasectomies mandatory


What about sperm clinics?

I send copious amounts of semen to sperm clinics every week.

They don't want any of it, and have even threatened legal action, but that won't stop me.

I'm doing it for Jesus.

Mame
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 01:28 pm
@izzythepush,
LMAO! You're on a roll today, izzy!
0 Replies
 
ballast
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 03:49 pm
@engineer
"The first is that the man and woman are equal participants in a pregnancy." They are equally responsible for a pregnancy coming about.

"The significant health risks of pregnancy, the expenses and other impacts all fall to the woman." There's nothing I said that ignores any health risks about which a woman would have concerns. There's literally nothing in it that prevents a woman from deciding to abort a pregnancy.

"There is no need for a "proposal" because there is no need for government involvement." Like it or not, the government is involved.

"You also seem to regard pregnancy as punitive, as a punishment for having sex." I can't imagine how you got that out of it.

"If someone can't look forward with joy to bringing a child into the world, the idea that you would force them to do it anyway as some sort of punishment seems sadistic." Did you even read what I posted?
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 04:14 pm
@ballast,
I am sure he did. I agree - with him.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 04:45 pm
@ballast,
Everybody read what you posted, Mr. Marvelous, it's just a pity that men can't get pregnant.
0 Replies
 
ballast
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 07:18 pm
I've read all your responses. It appears there's nothing there, but if I've missed it, please elucidate. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 08:28 pm
@ballast,
Quote:
While I recognize abortion as killing, infanticide


[Infanticide definition] The crime of a mother killing her child within a year of birth. Infanticide refers to the killing of an infant human being after birth; pre-birth abortion is not murder of a human being in the eyes of God.

It is the individual and independent MIND that develops after the baby is born and takes its first breath, which is the potential child of God, the invisible MIND=SPIRIT, not the meat, for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Exodus 21: 22-25; “If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges. But if the woman herself is injured, the punishment shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The unborn fetus is still only a potential human being.
0 Replies
 
ballast
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2022 08:29 pm
It's been surprising to me that responses have generally been as if the proposal was some pro-family, pro-life position whereas, if you'll read it, it is very much a pro-choice idea.

And with the anticipated coming tide of related debates in legislative houses around the nation, it is a proposal we should get behind if we want pro-choice to endure in some of the states.
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2022 09:40 pm
@ballast,
Look Sunny, I don't know how old you are, but you don't seem to have a clear understanding what is going on in the United States. Did you know that a lot of young men are only sperm donors? They leave their pregnant partners to fend for themselves and even divorced fathers are out there not paying a dime towards child support. Most women affected by an abortion ban are in poor socio-economic conditions and would scale further down into poverty with a child as most of them have one or two children already.

Our misogynistic law makers have no inclination of helping a born baby. There is no free healthcare, there is no free childcare, there is no free anything for children. That's in addition to the US educational system being expensive, unequal and bad at math and don't ask about geography. There is no proper sex education, no free contraceptives and no help for young people other than Planned Parenthood and GOP is very much trying to defund them too.

Once the US provides for its children as it's customary in other industrialized nations, enables them to get a decent education for free and provides adequate child support for them, our government has shown to be pro life. Until then there only can be pro choice! My body, my choice!

Now let's talk about gun control - no gun control equals to never pro life!

Last, not least - any male being against abortion should automatically have
a scheduled vasectomy.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Aug, 2024 09:53 am
@ballast,
ballast wrote:


2.) Recently there have been attempts to create a legal safe haven for so-called live birth abortions – these are not acceptable as once the baby is breathing outside the womb he or she is unarguably a United States citizen with civil rights.

You're one of those SH!THEADS that believe the utter lies of the Republican Party. This claim was NEVER at thing. Stop repeating the blatant lies.

glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Aug, 2024 09:47 pm
@tsarstepan,
Sadly, too few people are aware of what happens to women when they miscarry. I lost a baby many years back, but if it was today and I lived in Texas I would not have been allowed to have a D&C. That would be tampering with God's plan that women should die if their pregnancy failed.

So I was allowed the D&C for health reasons (to make sure no deceased baby parts were left behind that could cause sepsis and kill me). Does that sound resonable to the abortion freaks, or am I an animal because God terminated my pregnancy and the doctors (due to their education) knew it was important to care for me so I wouldn't get terribly sick or die?



0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Aug, 2024 12:40 pm
@izzythepush,
Bwa ha ha ha Terrible imagery for me there, but funny nonetheless Smile Thanks for the laugh.
0 Replies
 
 

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