Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

cicerone imposter wrote:

HOw does one decide what is history, what is allegory, what is metaphor, symbolism, instruction, prophecy, and apolocalyptic code?

By considering what the Bible as a whole has to say. That is, just like any other book, you make certain assumptions as you read, and if those assumptions are not borne out through reading the rest of the book, then you adjust those assumptions until they do make sense. That's the 50,000 foot view - I can get more specific if you wish.

Quote:

Will you please go through the bible and identify each one for us? We will be foreever indebted to you.

I suppose I could, if I had the time to dedicate to it. But for what purpose, really? It isn't as if this hasn't already been done. Nor is it as if you would simply accept what me or anyone else has to say.

Right?

I

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Implicator, Awe, go do your own homework. This stuff has been repeated ad nauseum on a2k, so all you need to do is search the religion forums.

Excuse me, but aren't you the one who just asked the following?

Quote:

HOw does one decide what is history, what is allegory, what is metaphor, symbolism, instruction, prophecy, and apolocalyptic code?

Will you please go through the bible and identify each one for us? We will be foreever indebted to you.

Certainly you or someone else has already done what you are asking for, no? If not, how would you know whether there were contradictions or errors or omissions in the Bible?

More to the point, it is you who is ignoring your homework. You made an assertion, which I challenged. You then proceeded to dismiss it as if it had already been proven elsewhere. The fact that you didn't even attempt to point to one such proof, on a2k, or anywhere else speaks volumes about your ability to back up your assertions.

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Another thing that is obvious is the simple fact that you religious people don't read or understand what's posted that contradicts your position on anyting about the bible, anywhos. Ain't gonna waste my time, but since you're curious enough - go search.

Nope, sorry, nice try. Your assertion, your burden of proof.

And what makes you say I am religious?

I

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Start with "contradictions in the bible." I'll provide you with a start: happy hunting.

Contradictions
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first--beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their cud
Insects do NOT have four feet
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
God be seen?
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
Who killed Saul
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

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Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:

Implicator, Awe, go do your own homework. This stuff has been repeated ad nauseum on a2k, so all you need to do is search the religion forums.

Another thing that is obvious is the simple fact that you religious people don't read or understand what's posted that contradicts your position on anyting about the bible, anywhos. Ain't gonna waste my time, but since you're curious enough - go search.

And IMO, this is exactly what I was talking about. You expect us to answer your questions but when we ask questions of you, we are told to do our own research.

C.I., your posts speak volumes; however, I am afraid they are not saying what you wish them to (IMHO). And, when you finally do post something, it's not something of your own. Where do you get this stuff? Do you have any idea of your own what any of those mean?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Start with "contradictions in the bible." I'll provide you with a start: happy hunting.

Contradictions
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first--beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their cud
Insects do NOT have four feet
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
God be seen?
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
Who killed Saul
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Is scatter-shot the only approach of debate you know?

Why don't you pick one of these to start, and we can work through it. Maybe it is a contradiction, maybe it isn't. But for you to think you can provide a C&P without backing it up is just plain silly.

There are sites galore on the web that address these, yet I am sure you wouldn't be happy if I simply C&P'd rebuttals. Or would you?

I

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Implicator, Awe, go do your own homework. This stuff has been repeated ad nauseum on a2k, so all you need to do is search the religion forums.

Another thing that is obvious is the simple fact that you religious people don't read or understand what's posted that contradicts your position on anyting about the bible, anywhos. Ain't gonna waste my time, but since you're curious enough - go search.

Yup, and you didn't answer anything that was asked then either. Curious that you refer to other posters as you religious people as if there was something wrong with being religious. Are you being a bigot? If you don't want to waste your time answering questions, why do you waste your time asking them and slamming "religious people". You seem to have plenty of time for that.

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Implicator wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Start with "contradictions in the bible." I'll provide you with a start: happy hunting.

Contradictions
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first--beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their cud
Insects do NOT have four feet
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
God be seen?
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
Who killed Saul
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Is scatter-shot the only approach of debate you know?

Why don't you pick one of these to start, and we can work through it. Maybe it is a contradiction, maybe it isn't. But for you to think you can provide a C&P without backing it up is just plain silly.

There are sites galore on the web that address these, yet I am sure you wouldn't be happy if I simply C&P'd rebuttals. Or would you?

I

We see this far too much. CI is the king of C&P. It wouldn't be so bad if he could make some commentary on what he pastes. Of course, he would have to understand what he pasted in order to do this.

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My commentary is this; there are many contradictions in the bible. It's for you to research the list I gave you to prove or disprove my point.

Simple enough?

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He who makes the claim is the one who should provide the proof. It isn't up to anybody else to do so. He who cannot support his claim shall generally be considered to be whistling in the wind.

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Do you mean the religious only can ask questions about the bible?

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Foxfyre wrote:

He who makes the claim is the one who should provide the proof. It isn't up to anybody else to do so.

The Christians would have us believe otherwise.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

My commentary is this; there are many contradictions in the bible. It's for you to research the list I gave you to prove or disprove my point.

Simple enough?

C.I.,

Weren't you the one that praised Frank for his wonderul debating skills not long ago? Wasn't one of those skills his ability to answer each and every question posed to him?

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Questioner wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
He who makes the claim is the one who should provide the proof. It isn't up to anybody else to do so.

The Christians would have us believe otherwise.

There is a fine line here. Christians who speak of their own experience do not have to provide proof. They are their own proof. Those who make claims outside of their own experience however, or those who make claims concerning others, shalll provide proof or will generally be considered to be whistling in the wind. (Proverb according to Foxfyre.)

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Foxfyre wrote:

Questioner wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
He who makes the claim is the one who should provide the proof. It isn't up to anybody else to do so.

The Christians would have us believe otherwise.

There is a fine line here. Christians who speak of their own experience do not have to provide proof. They are their own proof. Those who make claims outside of their own experience however, or those who make claims concerning others, shalll provide proof or will generally be considered to be whistling in the wind. (Proverb according to Foxfyre.)

Heh, interesting way of putting it.

It could be argued that the "experience" you had was gas, not divine intervention. But good point none-the-less.

And CI, you really are falling off the deep-end mate.

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We're not talking about belief or faith here. All we're doing is asking simple questions about the bible (since I'm not an expert). If you put your faith in the bible, it would seem that answers should be forthcoming without all this side-stepping and dodging to answer questions about the bible.

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Questioner wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Questioner wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
He who makes the claim is the one who should provide the proof. It isn't up to anybody else to do so.

The Christians would have us believe otherwise.

There is a fine line here. Christians who speak of their own experience do not have to provide proof. They are their own proof. Those who make claims outside of their own experience however, or those who make claims concerning others, shalll provide proof or will generally be considered to be whistling in the wind. (Proverb according to Foxfyre.)

Heh, interesting way of putting it.

It could be argued that the "experience" you had was gas, not divine intervention. But good point none-the-less.

And CI, you really are falling off the deep-end mate.

Yes, it could be your experience that the claims made by Christian was all gas, and not intervention. But you cannot prove that the Christian did not have the experience that the Christian claims, nor can the Christian prove that you did or did not have the same experience.

But when I say that the Bible has contradictions, especially when I say it to discredit the Bible, this is not experience. This is a statement of verifiable fact. If/when I say it, I fully expect to be able to back it up. I consider anybody who says it without being able to give a credible example or illustration is just whistling in the wind. This is really amplified when he insists that it is not up to him to prove his allegations, but it is up to others to disprove them.

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Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:

We're not talking about belief or faith here. All we're doing is asking simple questions about the bible (since I'm not an expert). If you put your faith in the bible, it would seem that answers should be forthcoming without all this side-stepping and dodging to answer questions about the bible.

C.I., I am afraid even Frank would disagree with you. You have asked questions and we have answered them. We ask you questions and you are the one doing the dodging. You put something out there and don't back it up. Frank backs up everything. We may not like it or accept it but at least he does back it up. Can't you see the difference?

If you would like to pick out a contradiction and explain how you see it as a contradiction I am sure we would be more than willing to address the issue.

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C.I. tries to baffle by putting out a full page of "questions" which are really just one line statements he has cut and pasted. If he has a serious question to ask, why doesn't he answer it. Why? Because he knows that he cannot answer it on his own. That is why he posts things in such a way that others will followup and try to bring him out of the muck he has gotten himself into.

Both Foxfyre and Momma Angel have asked that any specific contradiction or question be posted and it will be addressed. Just posting a list is not asking a question or discussing a particular contradiction.

Post the contradiction. Explain your reason for thinking it is a contradiction. An answer will be forthcoming, I am sure.

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Fair enough:

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

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Okay, now you'll have to research to see to whom Jeremiah is referring and to whom the Psalmist was singing. Once you do that you may or may not find an inconsistency. And then there must be some determination whether there is poetic license in a song composed to the glory of God and a specific prophecy by one of the Old Testaments very best hellfire and damnation preachers (prophet).l

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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

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