1
   

Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 10:19 pm
Rex, go back and re-read the posts. Snood was responding to Dys's post that had absolutely nothing to do with race. Nobody brought up race but you, and it looked like you were ragging on Snood for some point he made. As I see it, you and Snood are both on the right side of the issue even if you do come from somewhat different perspectives. Now play nice.
0 Replies
 
tonyf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 02:28 am
RexRed wrote:


There is fair trade and then there are trade ethnics...
Just wondering if anyone is going to define "trade ethnics" :wink:

"Canadian Health Care" you will be obligated to pay for? You can gleefully then stand in line for it when you are proudly a Canadian citizen...
I thought the whole point of health service was to ensure that health care was readily available to all, irrespective of their ability to pay insurance premiums. Shouldn't the basic tenets of any honest government include the provision of afforadable housing, free education, a health service, employment, legislation against all forms of discrimination, political freedom? Why should private health insurance companies get rich on exploiting a basic human right? If a political party can't come up with policies that meet these tenets, are they worth voting for? If provision of these tenets, as in the US, is in the realm of private companies - then what is the government for? What are they governing? How can the government then influence the development & well-being of society? They canadian model, along with those of scandinavia and much of western europe may not be perfect - but they are a heck of lot better than the US model in terms of egalitarianism.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:47 pm
tonyf wrote:
RexRed wrote:


There is fair trade and then there are trade ethnics...
Just wondering if anyone is going to define "trade ethnics" :wink:

"Canadian Health Care" you will be obligated to pay for? You can gleefully then stand in line for it when you are proudly a Canadian citizen...
I thought the whole point of health service was to ensure that health care was readily available to all, irrespective of their ability to pay insurance premiums. Shouldn't the basic tenets of any honest government include the provision of afforadable housing, free education, a health service, employment, legislation against all forms of discrimination, political freedom? Why should private health insurance companies get rich on exploiting a basic human right? If a political party can't come up with policies that meet these tenets, are they worth voting for? If provision of these tenets, as in the US, is in the realm of private companies - then what is the government for? What are they governing? How can the government then influence the development & well-being of society? They canadian model, along with those of scandinavia and much of western europe may not be perfect - but they are a heck of lot better than the US model in terms of egalitarianism.


Trade ethics to me means opposing policies that intentionally hurt people. Like I won't be doing any Christmas shopping at the Target Stores this year after they threw out the Salvation Army kettles. That's purely my personal preference, however.

On a more serious note, some years ago the Nestle Corporation was giving free formula to dirt poor Third World mothers. When the mothers fed the formula to their babies, their own milk of course dried up. And then Nestle started charging for the formula, the women couldn't afford it creating massive starvation and no doubt deaths of many babies. Many of us felt this practice, though legal, to be so morally reprehensible and indefensible, we helped organize a nationwide boycott of Nestle. It was sufficiently successful that they ceased their immoral marketing practices.

It is things like this that I consider to fall within the realm of trade ethics and I prefer that it originate from citizens rather than governments..
0 Replies
 
tonyf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:32 am
Foxfyre wrote:
tonyf wrote:
RexRed wrote:


There is fair trade and then there are trade ethnics...
Just wondering if anyone is going to define "trade ethnics" :wink:

"Canadian Health Care" you will be obligated to pay for? You can gleefully then stand in line for it when you are proudly a Canadian citizen...
I thought the whole point of health service was to ensure that health care was readily available to all, irrespective of their ability to pay insurance premiums. Shouldn't the basic tenets of any honest government include the provision of afforadable housing, free education, a health service, employment, legislation against all forms of discrimination, political freedom? Why should private health insurance companies get rich on exploiting a basic human right? If a political party can't come up with policies that meet these tenets, are they worth voting for? If provision of these tenets, as in the US, is in the realm of private companies - then what is the government for? What are they governing? How can the government then influence the development & well-being of society? They canadian model, along with those of scandinavia and much of western europe may not be perfect - but they are a heck of lot better than the US model in terms of egalitarianism.


Trade ethics to me means opposing policies that intentionally hurt people. Like I won't be doing any Christmas shopping at the Target Stores this year after they threw out the Salvation Army kettles. That's purely my personal preference, however.
I fully agree with your definition, foxfyre. I'm also an ethical consumer - Fairtrade etc. My request for a definition was partly ironic as the reference was to "trade ethnics", a completely different kettle of fish Smile
On a more serious note, some years ago the Nestle Corporation was giving free formula to dirt poor Third World mothers. When the mothers fed the formula to their babies, their own milk of course dried up. And then Nestle started charging for the formula, the women couldn't afford it creating massive starvation and no doubt deaths of many babies. Many of us felt this practice, though legal, to be so morally reprehensible and indefensible, we helped organize a nationwide boycott of Nestle. It was sufficiently successful that they ceased their immoral marketing practices.
Great to hear about others who find the behaviour of multinationals reprehensible to say the least. I also supported the boycott of Nestle (and still do) in the same way that I won't use Esso (exxon); texaco etc. Up until the change of government & policy, I supported the boycott of South African goods, foods & wines.

It is things like this that I consider to fall within the realm of trade ethics and I prefer that it originate from citizens rather than governments
Again, I fully agree with you. I'd also add NGOs like UNICEF, OXFAM, Medicin sans Frontiers et al to the range of worthwhile causes to support...


Now, what about "trade ethnics"? Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:06 pm
tonyf wrote:
RexRed wrote:


There is fair trade and then there are trade ethnics...
Just wondering if anyone is going to define "trade ethnics" :wink:

That was obviously a typo.

"Canadian Health Care" you will be obligated to pay for? You can gleefully then stand in line for it when you are proudly a Canadian citizen...
I thought the whole point of health service was to ensure that health care was readily available to all, irrespective of their ability to pay insurance premiums. Shouldn't the basic tenets of any honest government include the provision of afforadable housing, free education, a health service, employment, legislation against all forms of discrimination, political freedom? Why should private health insurance companies get rich on exploiting a basic human right? If a political party can't come up with policies that meet these tenets, are they worth voting for? If provision of these tenets, as in the US, is in the realm of private companies - then what is the government for? What are they governing? How can the government then influence the development & well-being of society? They canadian model, along with those of scandinavia and much of western europe may not be perfect - but they are a heck of lot better than the US model in terms of egalitarianism.


Did you even read the article I posted? Have you ever walked into an emergency room in America with no insurance and healthcare coverage and been refused treatment? They NEVER refuse treatment... If you have no job you can even go see the financial dept. in the hospital and they will wipe your debt to zero...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:09 pm
I once traded an ethnic for a utility infielder to be named at a later date.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:11 pm
Leave it to able2know to take out the edit function so that people cannot correct stupid stuff "in their own words" like "trade ethnics"...

I liked it better the old way when you could correct previous edits...
0 Replies
 
tonyf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:50 pm
trade ethnics
yes, yes...I'm fully aware that the reference to "trade ethnics" was originally a typo; but it did open up the possibility of extending the debate into previously unexplored, esoteric, thought-provoking areas.

Quote:
Did you even read the article I posted? Have you ever walked into an emergency room in America with no insurance and healthcare coverage and been refused treatment? They NEVER refuse treatment... If you have no job you can even go see the financial dept. in the hospital and they will wipe your debt to zero...


0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 03:00 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I once traded an ethnic for a utility infielder to be named at a later date.


Mr. Dys...

Every time you say something to me or in response to me it is a slam...

I maybe will take some time out to follow you around and slam everything you say... especially when you are being genuine... (or have you ever been genuine?) how will you like it then?

If that is all the error you can find in my responses are a few typos then I must have sound logic... Or, you are just so intellectually challenged and the best you can do is regress to a juveniles emotional quotient.

This is not the first time Mr. Dys that you have slammed me after some of my posts... I will be watching you in the future and if you want to continue your insult game we will find out who gets the last laugh...

People may find me overreacting to your posts but that is because there is a continuous pattern to your hit and run style of insult and innuendo..

I will not tolerate your insult..., Mr. Dys... go tangle with someone more on your low level of communicative skills.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 03:28 pm
snood wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I do believe, Mr Red, that you would study darkness by turning on the lights.


...wouldn't be totally obtuse - since dark can't exist except as light's opposite. (but I get your mean-spirited point)


Can light exist without darkness?

YES...

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Comment:
Our God can exist for eternity and beyond with no darkness..

MOST light is in spectrums that are not even visible to the naked eye...

Light exists even beyond the physical world... even in total "darkness" there is light. Even all matter theoretically itself is made from energy at the speed of light.

The color spectrum that humans can see is only a small band of the total "light" spectrum...

With the right optical sensors humans can see in "darkness"... Darkness is only a factor of the human condition.

It is not meant allegorical broadly except that... right is not equal to wrong.. good is not equal to bad and light is not equal to darkness. Darkness only exists in our own physical limitation to see other hidden spectrums of light. Do theses spectrums of light not exist just because we cannot see them? They exist...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 03:38 pm
Coyote was loping along the river while the hot afternoon sun baked the cactus. There was hardly a wisp of air stirring along the desert floor and nary a creature would venture out into the heat, but coyote had a mission. Along the bank of river coyote continued skipping along between the river rocks, the sage and the occasional old cottonwood tree. It would be many hours yet until coyote was home in his den and the cooler evening breeze would break the heat of the day. But, suddenly coyote heard the smallest voice coming from just off to his side. Coyote stopped instantly, knowing there could but be few creatures willing to draw his attention for he was the greatest hunter in these parts of what he claimed as his desert. With coyote's keen eye and smell he scouted the immediate area around him only to notice nothing at all. Coyote was puzzled. He stopped frozen there in his tracks soundless and listened once again for the sound he had heard. There it came again, "coyote, oh coyote". The then his nose caught the faint hint of scorpion. Back his ears went, and his forelegs stiffened with his head lowered preparing to avert the strike of that deadly scorpion tail. But again he heard scorpion "coyote, oh coyote". Then he saw scorpion under the ledge of a small sandstone rock perched like a ledge beside the river. Still alert he came closer to scorpion curious as to why scorpion would be calling him. As coyote neared the stone by the river scorpion began to plead with great pity in his voice. "Please coyote, hear me out, I have great need for your assistance." But coyote was wise to the danger of scorpion and kept his distance. "I shall not harm you coyote for I am in great need and it would be foolish for me to cause you harm." Now coyote was acutely aware of those creatures that could cause him harm. Sidewinder, Diamond back, Gila monster, Javalina and Scorpion all were to be avoided whenever possible. But this situation coyote had never encountered before, scorpion was pleading for help and coyote was caught between his natural fear and his curiosity. Coyote ventured a step closer so as to listen to the plight of scorpion. "Do not fear me coyote, I only wish for you to carry me across the river so that I might get back to my home for I was hiding in a leaf of the great cottonwood tree and a gust of wind tore the leaf from the tree and carried me across that wide river. I only wish to get back to my home and family." But coyote was no fool to have survived as long as he had in this wild and dangerous desert and he told scorpion "I can not carry you across the river for you are scorpion and you will surely sting me and I will die." "No, no said scorpion, I shall not sting you for I have great need of you assistance. I only ask that you allow me to climb up on top of your head and while you swim across the river I will be safe and dry." "But" coyote said, "you are scorpion and therefore you will sting me."
"I would be only the fool to sting you coyote, for it is I that wish to get safely to the other side of the river and I can only do so by you giving me safe passage." Coyote was puzzled by the sense of fear of scorpion and the contradiction to the simple logic that was offered by scorpion. Finally coyote resigned himself and told scorpion that yes he would allow scorpion to ride on his head while he swam across the river. Scorpion gleefully climbed up coyote's leg and perched securely between coyotes ears for the ride across the river and coyote stepped carefully into the swift current and swam easily across the river almost reaching the other side when he felt a fire blaze into his head. He cried to himself and to scorpion "I will surely die now that you have stung me and you will also die for you cannot swim and must die here in the river with me. Why, oh why did you sting me?" "Well," said scorpion, "that's just my nature."
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 03:52 pm
Maybe we could "trade ethnics", with Mexico? We can trade their impoverished drug addicts desperately crossing the border into the US with some of our own white/ethnic, felons, strung out, heroine addicts and child molesters too! We could just give them free bus fair and line the borders with them... We could send them down in truckloads and dump them on some of their major cities... and also there are rural areas. We could even send them down with road maps and directions to the easiest passage across... This is free trade isn't it?

Maybe these crazy white/ethnic, strung out, desperate US felons could travel down and once in Mexico or at least from the border become future drug lords and join some radical "gang" working to overthrow the government?

Hell, we trade liberals with Canada! Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 04:21 pm
Well Dys

You can teach an old dog new tricks...
and scorpions can't talk...

It sounds more like a rationalization to make it acceptable to be a back-stabber and a scoundrel to people?

Is that how you want to be perceived?

What has happened to your own sense of trust, honor and pride?

I have not been "back-stabbed" by you. You have a habit of being a wise ass instead of someone who is willing to look at things more reasonably.

You have this big long passage you print to justify hatred of some sort and call it nature...

Humans have a capacity to see above "nature" and violence to reason and peaceful agreement...

Let's hope in our future posts that you will have improved on not employing your shock tactics. They are ambiguous to say the least and honestly, I just may next time leave you on the leaf to drift down the stream... That is what you get for lurking around in the trees to long... Smile
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 04:32 pm
I love coyote stories. *popping peyote Smile
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 05:48 pm
RexRed wrote:
Maybe we could "trade ethnics", with Mexico? We can trade their impoverished drug addicts desperately crossing the border into the US with some of our own white/ethnic, felons, strung out, heroine addicts and child molesters too! We could just give them free bus fair and line the borders with them... We could send them down in truckloads and dump them on some of their major cities... and also there are rural areas. We could even send them down with road maps and directions to the easiest passage across... This is free trade isn't it?

Maybe these crazy white/ethnic, strung out, desperate US felons could travel down and once in Mexico or at least from the border become future drug lords and join some radical "gang" working to overthrow the government?

Hell, we trade liberals with Canada! Smile

Mr. Red when one takes on the role of high holy I can walk on water slime such as posted above one should check ones' underfooting because your feet leak and the water is over your head.
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2005 08:27 pm
I think this story should go into this forum.

THE FIREMAN
In Phoenix, Arizona, a 26-year-old mother stared down
at her 6 year old son, who was dying of
terminal leukemia. Although her heart was filled with
sadness, she also had a strong feeling of
determination. Like any parent, she wanted her son to
grow up and fulfill all his dreams. Now
that was no longer possible..

The leukemia would see to that. But she still wanted
her son's dreams to come true. She took
her son's hand and asked, "Billy, did you ever think
about what you wanted to be once you grew
up? Did you ever dream and wish what you would do with
your life?"

"Mommy, I always wanted to be a fireman when I grew
up."

Mom smiled back and said, "Let's see if we can make
your wish come true."

Later that day she went to her local fire department
in Phoenix, Arizona, where she met
Fireman Bob, who had a heart as big as Phoenix.

She explained her son's final wish and asked if it
might be possible to give her six-year-old son
a ride around the block on a fire engine. Fireman Bob
said, "Look, we can do better than
that. If you'll have your son ready at seven o'clock
Wednesday morning, we'll make him an
honorary fireman for the whole day. He can come down
to the fire station, eat with us, go out on all the
fire calls, the whole nine yards! And if you'll give
us his sizes, we'll get a real fire
uniform for him, with a real fire hat-not a toy
one-with the emblem of the Phoenix Fire
Department on it, a yellow slicker like we wear and
rubber boots. They're all manufactured right
here in Phoenix, so we can get them fast."

Three days later Fireman Bob picked up Billy, dressed
him in his fire uniform and escorted him
from his hospital bed to the waiting hook and ladder
truck. Billy got to sit on the back of the
truck and help steer it back to the fire station.

He was in heaven. There were three fire calls in
Phoenix that day and Billy got to go out on all
three calls. He rode in the different fire engines,
the paramedic's van, and even the fire chief's car.
He was also videotaped for the local news program.
Having his dream come true, with all the
love and attention that was lavished upon him, so
deeply touched Billy that he lived three months
longer than any doctor thought possible.

One night all of his vital signs began to drop
dramatically and the head nurse, who believed in
the hospice concept that no one should die alone,
began to call the family members to the hospital.

Then she remembered the day Billy had spent as a
fireman, so she called the Fire Chief and asked
if it would be possible to send a fireman in uniform
to the hospital to be with Billy as he
made his transition.

The chief replied, "We can do better than that. We'll
be there in five minutes. Will you please do me a
favor? When you hear the sirens screaming and see the
lights flashing, will you announce over the PA system
that there is not a fire? It's just the fire
department coming to see one of its finest members one
more time. And will you open the window to his room?

About five minutes later a hook and ladder truck
arrived at the hospital and extended its ladder
up to Billy's third floor open window 16 firefighters
climbed up the ladder into Billy's room.

With his mother's permission, they hugged him and held
him and told him how much
they loved him.

With his dying breath, Billy looked up at the fire
chief and said, "Chief, am I really a fireman now?"

"Billy, you are, and the Head Chief, Jesus, is holding
your hand," the chief said.

With those words, Billy smiled and said, "I know, He's
been holding my hand all day, and the angels have been
singing.."

He closed his eyes one last time.

*****************************

Stop telling God how big your storm is.

Instead tell your storm how big your GOD is.
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 12:14 am
englishmajor,
what was the point of that story?
Did you take that out of Chicken Soup for the MiddleAged Christian Soul book?

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 08:34 am
That was a very touching story. However, I don't see the relevance to this thread.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 12:11 am
englishmajor wrote:
I think this story should go into this forum.

THE FIREMAN
In Phoenix, Arizona, a 26-year-old mother stared down
at her 6 year old son, who was dying of
terminal leukemia. Although her heart was filled with
sadness, she also had a strong feeling of
determination. Like any parent, she wanted her son to
grow up and fulfill all his dreams. Now
that was no longer possible..

The leukemia would see to that. But she still wanted
her son's dreams to come true. She took
her son's hand and asked, "Billy, did you ever think
about what you wanted to be once you grew
up? Did you ever dream and wish what you would do with
your life?"

"Mommy, I always wanted to be a fireman when I grew
up."

Mom smiled back and said, "Let's see if we can make
your wish come true."

Later that day she went to her local fire department
in Phoenix, Arizona, where she met
Fireman Bob, who had a heart as big as Phoenix.

She explained her son's final wish and asked if it
might be possible to give her six-year-old son
a ride around the block on a fire engine. Fireman Bob
said, "Look, we can do better than
that. If you'll have your son ready at seven o'clock
Wednesday morning, we'll make him an
honorary fireman for the whole day. He can come down
to the fire station, eat with us, go out on all the
fire calls, the whole nine yards! And if you'll give
us his sizes, we'll get a real fire
uniform for him, with a real fire hat-not a toy
one-with the emblem of the Phoenix Fire
Department on it, a yellow slicker like we wear and
rubber boots. They're all manufactured right
here in Phoenix, so we can get them fast."

Three days later Fireman Bob picked up Billy, dressed
him in his fire uniform and escorted him
from his hospital bed to the waiting hook and ladder
truck. Billy got to sit on the back of the
truck and help steer it back to the fire station.

He was in heaven. There were three fire calls in
Phoenix that day and Billy got to go out on all
three calls. He rode in the different fire engines,
the paramedic's van, and even the fire chief's car.
He was also videotaped for the local news program.
Having his dream come true, with all the
love and attention that was lavished upon him, so
deeply touched Billy that he lived three months
longer than any doctor thought possible.

One night all of his vital signs began to drop
dramatically and the head nurse, who believed in
the hospice concept that no one should die alone,
began to call the family members to the hospital.

Then she remembered the day Billy had spent as a
fireman, so she called the Fire Chief and asked
if it would be possible to send a fireman in uniform
to the hospital to be with Billy as he
made his transition.

The chief replied, "We can do better than that. We'll
be there in five minutes. Will you please do me a
favor? When you hear the sirens screaming and see the
lights flashing, will you announce over the PA system
that there is not a fire? It's just the fire
department coming to see one of its finest members one
more time. And will you open the window to his room?

About five minutes later a hook and ladder truck
arrived at the hospital and extended its ladder
up to Billy's third floor open window 16 firefighters
climbed up the ladder into Billy's room.

With his mother's permission, they hugged him and held
him and told him how much
they loved him.

With his dying breath, Billy looked up at the fire
chief and said, "Chief, am I really a fireman now?"

"Billy, you are, and the Head Chief, Jesus, is holding
your hand," the chief said.

With those words, Billy smiled and said, "I know, He's
been holding my hand all day, and the angels have been
singing.."

He closed his eyes one last time.

*****************************

Stop telling God how big your storm is.

Instead tell your storm how big your GOD is.


Thanks for sharing this... Smile
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 12:35 am
I haven't a clue as to what relevance this story had, but it's a great story.
0 Replies
 
 

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