Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

There was/is a whole thread on this englishmajor. You may want to check it out in the Political forums.

Englishmajor Wrote:



I will answer this question one more time. I have answered it many times. Some understand my position and some do not. That's reality.
I support the troops by doing everything I can to ensure that they have whatever encouragement, support, and necessities they may need just to get through a day.

I have friends over in Iraq. Would you have me ignore them? Yes. I vote. Yes, I have opinions. But, I do not discuss the politics of the war. It's as plain and simple as that. I have my reasons for that and like I told you before, those reasons are none of anyone's business but my own.

I don't know why you have such a problem with me, but it is just that, your problem.

I do what I believe is right. What those standards of 'right' are for me, are, fortunately, not set by you.

Now, if have you any other further political statements to make, then please, let's not take up everyone's time in the wrong thread.

Better inform joe nation, neo and some others that this is the wrong thread. Y'all have a good day.

I believe snood's calling your attention back to This Post of his, which was a query instanced by your post Here.

Other than citing the context, I think I'm staying out of this one

Thanks for the context assist - maybe it will produce an answer...

NP, snood, glad to help. Just 'cause I ain't active on a thread don't mean I ain't following it, ya know :wink:

OK snood I wnet back to find

My point was and continues to be that there are a number of a2k posters that post comments indicating they KNOW what US soldiers in combat (be it Vietnam/Iraq) whatever, think re their role in war. This is patently absurd, The divergence of views of vets is not unlike the divergent views of society at large. When I read say from Foxfyre that she knows what the US troops in Iraq think. I think that is dising the troops. Any 5 "troops" will likely give you 6 varing opinions on what the hell they are doing in (Vietnam/Iraq) more than likely they won't give you any opinion at all as they don't have time to think about.

Well said.

Joe(is that Dys' longest post ever?)Nation

damn near a paragraph. (won't happen again)

Well, I followed another reference over here and see my name taken in vain and wonder how did I get dragged into this?

I know what my family members who are over there tell me. I know what the guys and gals deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere that I correspond with tell me. I read their blogs. I read the newspaper, magazine, and books that describe what it's like for them. And I read the new veteran's posts here on A2K. And by virtue of my work, I occasionally have occason to be on various military bases in the area and have a couple of friends who are high ranking in the National Guard and some of these are veterans and sometimes the conversation turns to Iraq et al. I have no reason to believe that what they tell me is not what they think. One book I read recently by an imbedded reporter with the U.S. Marines in Iraq is "Generation Kill" by Evan Wright. It is about as nonpartisan and objectively written as any I have seen and does give a very good look into the good, the bad, and the ugly and the conflicting emotions of the guys in the war zones over there.

So should I just disbelieve all that I have been taught and all that I have been told and all that I have been shown from first hand eye witnesses? Apparently some think so. Or is it permissable for me to say what these brave young people think based on what they tell me they think?

Fox, IMHO I don't think you need to discount the stories you have haerd from vets, but it seems to me there are stories you are not hearing about.
_______________________

USA > Society & Culture
from the February 08, 2005 edition


HOME AGAIN: On returning from Iraq, Herold Noel faced the challenges of finding a home and tending to his family. He moved to New York with his wife and children, then became homeless. He now has a new apartment.
COREY SIPKIN/SPECIAL TO THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR



Back from Iraq - and suddenly out on the streets

Social service agencies say the number of homeless vets is rising, in part because of high housing costs and gaps in pay.

By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

NEW YORK - Veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts are now showing up in the nation's homeless shelters.
While the numbers are still small, they're steadily rising, and raising alarms in both the homeless and veterans' communities. The concern is that these returning veterans - some of whom can't find jobs after leaving the military, others of whom are still struggling psychologically with the war - may be just the beginning of an influx of new veterans in need. Currently, there are 150,000 troops in Iraq and 16,000 in Afghanistan. More than 130,000 have already served and returned home.


Related stories

11/10/04

Vets return, but not always with healthcare

07/09/03

The other battle: coming home



So far, dozens of them, like Herold Noel, a married father of three, have found themselves sleeping on the streets, on friends' couches, or in their cars within weeks of returning home. Two years ago, Black Veterans for Social Justice (BVSJ) in the borough of Brooklyn, saw only a handful of recent returnees. Now the group is aiding more than 100 Iraq veterans, 30 of whom are homeless.

"It's horrible to put your life on the line and then come back home to nothing, that's what I came home to: nothing. I didn't know where to go or where to turn," says Mr. Noel. "I thought I was alone, but I found out there are a whole lot of other soldiers in the same situation. Now I want people to know what's really going on."

After the Vietnam War, tens of thousands of veterans came home to a hostile culture that offered little gratitude and inadequate services, particularly to deal with the stresses of war. As a result, tens of thousands of Vietnam veterans still struggle with homelessness and drug addiction.

Veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are coming home to a very different America. While the Iraq war remains controversial, there is almost unanimous support for the soldiers overseas. And in the years since Vietnam, more than 250 nonprofit veterans' service organizations have sprouted up, many of them created by people like Peter Cameron, a Vietnam veteran who is determined that what happened to his fellow soldiers will not happen again.

But he and dozens of other veterans' service providers are concerned by the increasing numbers of new veterans ending up on streets and in shelters.

Part of the reason for these new veterans' struggles is that housing costs have skyrocketed at the same time real wages have remained relatively stable, often putting rental prices out of reach. And for many, there is a gap of months, sometimes years, between when military benefits end and veterans benefits begin.

"We are very much committed to helping veterans coming back from this war," says Mr. Cameron, executive director of Vietnam Veterans of California. "But the [Department of Veterans Affairs] already has needs it can't meet and there's a lot of fear out there that programs are going to be cut even further."

the universe is bigger and more complicated than you seem able to comprehend.

C.I.,

I am not sure why you posted that. We were talking about the way Viet Nam veterans were treated by the American public in relation to the way America is treating the troops now.

Can you explain how you felt that entered into it? I don't understand and would like to.

Just a simple suggestion for MA and Foxfyre, if you want to know about how vets feel, go spend 4 hours at a VA hospital waiting room/lobby and another 4 hours at a VFW with your eyes and your ears open and your mouth shut.

Dys, I don't understand why you just posted that to me and Foxfyre. I know some troops feel one way and some troops feel another.

And I support all our troops no matter which way they feelo.

Actually a close friend of the family is a doctor at the VA Hospital here in Albuquerque. She has stories too. And a member of our church was a patient at the VA hospital here for several weeks recuperating from serious injuries sustained in Iraq. I am from a military family, so I know all about the anger from military snafus, fubars, and screw ups. And I know there are some angry souls who can't see anything positive in anything, and the military gets some of those too.

I also know about the intense pride many feel in what they have accomplished in the line of duty.

I have many friends and relatives who are Vietnam vets too, and others sitll living that go back to Korea and WWII and various other conflicts.

All men and women who put their lives on the line in behalf of their country are deserving of respect and an even chance when they return home. Our church has helped three Iraq veteran families who found themselves unemployed when they returned home. For two it was a matter of helping with the rent until new jobs could be found and an income re-established. The third, we helped finance relocation so he could do work for which he was trained. None of these guys had needed public assistance before and probably won't again.

I don't know the circumstances of those cited in the links C.I. posted, if they are indeed real people, but I do know there is help available for those who need it and will look for it.

The point is, I don't try to tell other people what they know and think. I think it presumptuous for anybody to assume what I know and think, especially when they don't have a clue about my experience and background.

Those of us who are able to see that the troops want encouragement and appreciate understanding of the pride they feel in their mission aren't operating in a total vacuum or looking at anything through rose colored glasses here. I do know, many if not most of those troops do not feel supported or appreciated by those preaching a constant litany of doom, gloom, anger, and condemnation.

The Iraq vets are getting what can be deemed as "respect" from the general public, but this administration has been cutting vet benefits. That is contrary to what this administration keeps telling the American People - their support for our troops. It's wonderful that your community has helped three vets, but we're talking about thousands without support from our government and homeless. YOu may not wamt tp agree with these facts, but they are facts none-the-less. Our government stabs them in the back after they served their time and were injured in the war they started.

From CNN:

Pa. governor: Bush budget cuts for critical programs 'unconscionable'
Saturday, March 19, 2005 Posted: 1:37 PM EST (1837 GMT)


(CNN) -- The governor of Pennsylvania on Saturday said the federal government must do a better job helping America's war veterans and criticized proposed budget cuts affecting them.

"During this time of war, it is absolutely the wrong time for our federal government to step back from any of its commitments to our veterans. To do so would be penny wise but pound foolish," said Gov. Ed Rendell in the weekly Democratic radio address.

"In today's parlance, the cost of health care for these vets may be half a billion dollars but their sacrifice for our nation, priceless," he said.

So C.I., have you spent anytime in the military? Any personal experience?

Another question - Is there anyone or any group that you do like?