Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Thank you Phoenix. Yes, I hate what happened to the Viet Nam vets and that is why I am so headstrong about it not happening again!

Kickycan, I hate to tell you, but no, wasn't getting riled up. Just couldn't figure out why you were trying to make something out of what I said.

There are a number of Vietnam vets on this forum with wide ranging views, I've never noticed that their views were considered relevant. In fact I have noticed that their views are generally disregarded to the extent that many posters assume to know what they think. Arrogance with empathy is what I call it.

Dys,

I agree with you. I am so ashamed of the way those men and women were treated! I know we can never change what happened to them, but we sure can keep it from happening again.

Dys, what vets are getting dissed here?

What happened to Viet Nam vets IS happening again. They are in a conflict that was entered under false pretenses. They are being put in an untenable position without the proper resources to accomplish the task. They are being inserted into the midst of a civil war. They do not have the resources to provide security for the populace, therefore they become the bad guys in the eyes of the populace. Many of our troops today are on their third Iraqi tour in three years.

The worst thing that happened to Viet Nam vets was not just the reception by some of the radical protestors. It was what they experienced in Viet Nam. They were the fodder for the puffed up civilians who had no idea what war was all about, and who are kept in power by apathetic voters with heads in the sand.

Just about describes the current administration; Rummy has failed everybody.

Mesquite,

Let me make myself very clear, ok? When I said I didn't want to see it happen again, I meant I don't ever want to see our soldiers treated the way the Viet Nam vets were treated by the American citizens.

Actually, I thought you would have understood that's what I was referring to.

I did understand that. I thought you would understand what I meant when I said "The worst thing that happened to Viet Nam vets was not just the reception by some of the radical protestors. It was what they experienced in Viet Nam. They were the fodder for the puffed up civilians who had no idea what war was all about, and who are kept in power by apathetic voters with heads in the sand."

Since you were just a wee one at the time, your recollection is probably one of hearsay. I was in the military during that time, and I was not treated badly. Many were by highly publicized protestors. Just as today, the most shocking story makes the headlines. We cannot however blame the media for the deaths and maiming and mental trauma that occurred.
We can blame the electorate that keeps the incompetents in power.

A wee one? I think you might have me mixed up with someone else here. When we have Viet Nam vets returning home to Milkwaukee, Wisconsin I was tending bar. So, I think I am old enough to remember. And, as a matter of fact, my boyfriend at the time was in Viet Nam and he lost a leg. I remember it very, very well.

I didn't get into the politics of the war then either.

The troops were pretty much out of Viet Nam by the end of 1972, and completely out by April 1975. I didn't know you could tend bar at 16 or even 19, however the point I was making was not really your age.

In Wisconsin you only had to be 18. And I have a really good memory. I remember what I saw. I remember what I heard.

Still... your age was NOT my point.

I know that! And my point was not the politics. My point was the treatment of the soldiers.

Dys?

yes snood?

So which was worse, the few and far between repugnant acts of a few radicals against GIs, or the incompetent leadership of men like Nixon, Agnew and Henry Kissinger who kept those same GIs as
??

Oh. I know. You supported the troops but kept carefully away from examining the politics of the situation. Question: how does one do that?



The country, your nation, was involved in it's most controversial, longest fought foreign engagement. By the time you were bartending, 1968?, 50,000 Americans were dead and over 300,000 wounded, the protests at the Democratic Convention of that year and the subsequent Marchs on Washington put at times over a million people on this nation's streets. Nixon campaigned on a promise of a secret plan to end the war and with the backing of his Silent Majority strode into the White House.

How does one live during such an era and not espouse an opinion?

Joe(Although Harriet Miers may have the same attitude.)Nation

Joe Nation,

I don't recall saying I didn't have an opinion. I said, I don't get into the politics.

And that is, how did Neo put it, "doggy doo"? When you vote, you ARE getting into the politics.

Hi Joe Nation, this is addressed to Mom Angel as well. I appreciate your trying to reason with her.

You see how it is with her. It becomes a circular conversation because the person you were addressing does not comprehend your questions. Or pretends not to. She did not comprehend mine either. To keep repeating the same drivel over and over rather reminds me of Bushbaby. She likes to sidestep the issues, not discuss them. Sorry if I have a temper with such people; they tend to piss me off.

AGAIN, MOM ANGEL: How do you support the troops and not investigate the politics that created the war? Can't you answer the man's question?

You cannot blindly play follow the leader, or simon says. It can lead to horrible consequences like happened in Germany with Hitler.

By supporting the troops you are indirectly supporting a WAR, which means killing people, including babies. How does that sit with your Christian conscience? This should be against your Christian beliefs? You would do better to spend your time in joining protests to bring the troops home. More time in Iraq will only cause more civilian and military deaths. Is that what you want?

Dys- what vets are getting treated badly on A2K?