Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Phoenix wrote:

IMO faith, meaning "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence", is a cop-out. When one absolves the mind of any responsibility for the evaluation of a situation or idea, one is open to believe any and all inconsistencies, inaccuracies or downright untruths.

I'm intrigued by Phoenix' view...and will give it some thought. But would add another point (perhaps not new, but true, IMHO) that both atheists and religious folks have faith (although opposite views) of the the supernatural.

Since the existence of the supernatural cannot be proven, then confidence (or conjecture) in the existence OR non-existence is equally a matter of faith.

And lest you respond back with some opinion that agnostism is best, to them I'd say at least atheists and religous people have the courage to take a position one way or other.

Agnostics simply choose to live in ignorance of the truth (since the truth must be that the supernatural either exists or not).

It is better, I submit, to believe in something passionately even if it is wrong, than to believe in nothing at all.

Quote:

It is better, I submit, to believe in something passionately even if it is wrong, than to believe in nothing at all.

Chua Mui Hoong

http://www.generationterrorists.com/articles/passion.shtml

I found this interesting. Perhaps some of you will also.

I'm of the mind that whether there is a God or not does not really have to matter in the scheme of things. Since we will most likely never see any proof pro or con, why not live our lives to the best of our abilities, be decent people, and stop creating walls between people?

Phoenix32890 wrote:

I'm of the mind that whether there is a God or not does not really have to matter in the scheme of things. Since we will most likely never see any proof pro or con, why not live our lives to the best of our abilities, be decent people, and stop creating walls between people?

I'm in agreement about ceasing in the creation of walls. Thing is, taken on a one-on-one basis there doesn't have to be a problem between people who choose to believe or think differently from each other, unless some arsehole makes it a problem.

Actually, Phoenix brought up the pissing contest. But I understand that was you and Apisa's reply to the very reasonable contention by Phoenix, Dys and myself that people of faith can live and debate with others without rancor. Hey, you can only reply from the frame of reference you understand. You understand ridicule and juvenile clashes.

No one expects anything better from Apisa. But I had thought a little better of you, C.I.

snood wrote:

Actually, Phoenix brought up the pissing contest. But I understand that was you and Apisa's reply to the very reasonable contention by Phoenix, Dys and myself that people of faith can live and debate with others without rancor. Hey, you can only reply from the frame of reference you understand. You understand ridicule and juvenile clashes.

No one expects anything better from Apisa. But I had thought a little better of you, C.I.

And you can see, ci, that Snood always attempts to be understanding himself....and reasonable...and non-goading...and that he avoids rancor in all his posts.


NOT!



Getting a lecture from Snood on how to be reasonable, polite, and non-goading in Internet discussions...is like getting a lecture from George Bush on how to pronounce the word "nuclear."

And anyone with half a mind...

... can see that the only idiot I have these problems with is you, and that you seem to run into the same kind of problems with half a dozen (at least) other posters here. Someone as brilliant as you can see what those situations have in common, can't you, gramps?

snood wrote:

And anyone with half a mind...

There you go again, Snood. Always talking about yourself...and never dealing with the actually issue at hand.

Quote:

... can see that the only idiot I have these problems with is you, and that you seem to run into the same kind of problems with half a dozen (at least) other posters here. Someone as brilliant as you can see what those situations have in common, can't you, gramps?

Yup.

You Christians really don't like someone who tells you the truth in an unvarnished way. It upsets you...and it causes you to go haywire....and rant and rage.


That is what you meant, isn't it, lad?

"Conjecture"..is conjecture. "Faith" is the silly notion that a bit of conjecture should be defended as absolute truth.

Agnosticism...the acknowledgement that we do not know and have almost no unambiguous evidence upon which to base wild guesses...is infinitely superior both ethically and philosophically to theism and atheism.

By the way...it doesn't take "courage" to make a wild guess about the unknown and insist that the guess is correct. It takes immaturity.

Quote:
Agnostics simply choose to live in ignorance of the truth (since the truth must be that the supernatural either exists or not).


Agnostics do not "choose to live in ignorance of the truth"...in fact, they proclaim the truth all the time. They acknowledge that they do not know...and they acknowledge that there is not enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base meaningful guesses.

That is the truth.

destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

And while it may be true that "the supernatural either exists or not"...the plain and simply fact is that we have no idea if the Ultimte REALITY of existence is so different from what we are able to comprehend...the notion of a supernatural existing or not...may not even play a part.

Yeah, whatever you say, gramps. What those situations all have in common is one close-minded, self-important wanna be guru know it all - it's you, gramps, its you. But don't awaken from your denial on my account. Sleep on. Its fun knowing everyone can see that except you.

slkshock7,

I am truly a fan of your posts. You seem to be able to do what I definitely cannot do. You add logic and reason to the mix. I look forward to more of your posts so that I can learn. I just wanted to thank you for your conviction and dedication to Christianity.

Momma Angel