Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Any thinking, knowledgeable person knows that stoning has not been practiced for eons. Not for homosexuality, not for adultery, not for anytbing. Why do you ask a question that has an obvious answer?

What happens in Stoning?
In stoning to death, the victims's hands are tied behind their backs and their bodies are put in a cloth sack. Then, this human "package" is buried in a hole, with only the victims heads showing above the ground. If its a woman, she is buried upto her shoulders. This is to give her an seemingly equal (but nonetheless impossible) chance to escape recognizing her lesser physical strength.
After the hapless individual has been secured in the hole, people start chanting "Allah hu Akbar" (meaning, God is great), and throw palm sized stones at the head of the victim from a certain distance (a circle is drawn).
The stones are thrown until the person dies or until he/she escapes out of the hole and crosses the circle. Escaping is impossible, given that the individual's hands are tied behind their backs and they are buried in a hole upto their necks or shoulders (in the case of males and females respectively).
Naturally, the procedure is extremely barbaric and bloody.

Are you that uninformed or are you trying to trick somebody into saying what you want them to say so you can appear to be right and allknowing? You seem to think that we have not progressed in 2000 years. You do not realize that what was written for the priests and particular people of that time continues on to day.

You do not see any of this in the 10 commandments. THAT is the law of God. THAT is what Christians adhere to.

I am not sure I understand you here. Christians certainly dredge up a whole lot more out of the Old Testament than the Ten Commandments. Momma Angels stance on same sex marriage is one example.

You lost me as soon as you tried to use Islam stonings to portray Christianity.

Mesquite Wrote:

Quote:

I am not sure I understand you here. Christians certainly dredge up a whole lot more out of the Old Testament than the Ten Commandments. Momma Angels stance on same sex marriage is one example.

Momma Angel also gave a reference (I believe in this thread) earlier from the NEW TESTAMENT concerning homosexuality.

I haven't heard anything, Mesquite. I have, however, read everything. :-)
Unlike what CI and some others seem to relish in....them and us mentality. I prefer to think of us and us. I dont look for a half empty glass when I see it as half full. I don't have a raging desire to have the right side and the wrong side. I prefer to have a win/win situation. It is evident that Momma Angel and I do not agree on every point made. Why should we? Sure, we are both Christians as are many others. Many of us are of different religious denominations and have perhaps a bit of a different stance on certain topics and items. That certainly does not put us in opposing camps or make us want to tear down parts of each others faith and believes. Some are only satisfied when there is a battle going on. Peaceful discourse is possible. For those who make weak posts when one or another Christian does not agree 100% with another Christian is amusing, but at the same time pitiful.

Intrepid wrote:

I haven't heard anything, Mesquite. I have, however, read everything. :-)
Unlike what CI and some others seem to relish in....them and us mentality. I prefer to think of us and us. I dont look for a half empty glass when I see it as half full. I don't have a raging desire to have the right side and the wrong side. I prefer to have a win/win situation. It is evident that Momma Angel and I do not agree on every point made. Why should we? Sure, we are both Christians as are many others. Many of us are of different religious denominations and have perhaps a bit of a different stance on certain topics and items. That certainly does not put us in opposing camps or make us want to tear down parts of each others faith and believes. Some are only satisfied when there is a battle going on. Peaceful discourse is possible. For those who make weak posts when one or another Christian does not agree 100% with another Christian is amusing, but at the same time pitiful.

When I fired of that post I was several pages behind in reading and did not realize that you were already participating.

What I was hoping for was not a confrontation but that perhaps you could explain your position and how you arrived at it to MA. I can see that it may have looked like I was trying to pit you against each other, but that was not my intent.

Phoenix,

I'm with you to a point but not quite with your statement below.

Phoenix wrote:

The key here is "unknowable". IMO, I do not think that anything is "unknowable". It may be "unknown" to human beings, because humanity has evolved only so far.

Obviously, (unless you believe we'll someday lick the problem of time travel) we'll never know for certain what happened in the past...perhaps be able to make some conclusions with a 99% certainty, but that last 1% will inevitably be a matter of faith.

Frank wrote:

I think you realize you did not meet the challenge...but I guess you will have to claim victory once again...

Perhaps it's a tie. I think we both knew from the get-go that victory for either of us wouldn't be in the cards. I've conceded some points as have you. Been interesting though...and you have given me some pause.

I think that when the religious among us get to the point where they can live with that word "conjecture"...rather than using the word "faith"...which has artificially been given a status way beyond anything it deserves...

faith - A confident belief in the turth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

reason -The basis or motive for an action, decision, or convction.

So, what is it about Phoenix's quote, ""Faith is suspending your reason in the service of the supernatural..." that you fail to understand?

I only feel compelled to say something when I find that someone or some group of individuals is being unduly mean-spirited to people of faith.

"Faith is not acceptable for intelligent adults."

Well at least you had the grace to add "IMO". Some here don't find it necessary to offer those little caveats. In a way, I have no business in some of these discussions exactly because faith can't be argued - someone either has it, or not. I only feel compelled to say something when I find that someone or some group of individuals is being unduly mean-spirited to people of faith. As long as concessions and courtesies are offered for the other point of view, I think these things can be hashed about ad infinitum with no harm and no foul. I don't like it when Momma offers her cosmic ultimatums to mankind, and I don't like it when Apisa damns believers as hopeless fools. And I don't think that when that's done, it represents everyone's best efforts.

I think that this phenomenon cuts both ways. I have seen a lot of mean-spiritness in all camps. I think that the tendency to think in a tribal manner, eg: them and us, is the cause of this hostility. To me, a reasonable human being takes each person as an individual, and does not lump them into categories.

I think that we have seen, just looking at this thread alone, that along the continuum, from people of faith, to agnostics, to atheists, there is a vast divergence of thought. To me the ideal situation is to listen to all that is written, evaluate it based on what we already know, incorporate what we believe is relevent, and discard the rest. This is not a pissing contest!

IMO faith, meaning "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence", is a cop-out. When one absolves the mind of any responsibility for the evaluation of a situation or idea, one is open to believe any and all inconsistencies, inaccuracies or downright untruths.