Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Would you also like to stop people from saying grace before they eat their meal in a restaurant? It doesn't bother me if you don't do it so why should it bother you if I do?

MA-It seems to me that by displaying an artifact from a particular religion, the schools are not bringing the children together, but are separating them, and underlining their differences.

Underlinging their differences? There are differences and they must be acknowledged in this world. Isn't what some of this is all about? The difference we have in our views?

So, should we take all the religious artifacts out of the museums? Rid the world of religious books?

Of course not. Museums and libraries are appropriate places to display the works and artifacts of different cultures, so that people may learn about differences. Public schools aren't.

Intrepid,

Quote:

Interesting considering the advice the god of the Bible gives regarding this:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13

Well...I guess if you don't like one of the god's commandments...you just disregard it...and actually brag about disregarding it.

I am a bit confused. We are constantly being criticized for not being tolerant of gays. Yet, because we aren't out there killing them like the OLD TESTAMENT says we should do, we are then criticized for ignoring the law? Is that what you get from that statement?

So, the law that "someone" doesn't like in the first place is pointed out to us because we are NOT doing it?

HELP! I am totally not understanding that one.

I have to share this! I am having the most amazing day! God is doing the most amazing things today! woo hoo!

Frank wrote:

I would like to concentrate on the challenge I mentioned that I have put to all the other Christians in this thread. Perhaps you would like to deal with it, Shock.

It is my contention that whenever the Bible describes its god in action...doing and speaking...when the god is on the scene...

...is either punishing, threatening, killing, or requiring others to kill in its name.

I know of only one small passage that has the god showing any kind of appreciation for the human predicament...and none that show the god as the kind, compassionate, humanity loving god you folks claim it to be.

Can you produce two passages from the Bible where the primary thrust of the situtation being described is NOT the god punishing, threatening, killing or requiring others to kill in its name?

Remember...we are talking about the god of the Bible...the god Jesus worshipped...and we want it to be the god in action...rather than someone sucking up to the god by giving it credit for some thing or another.

First of all, you make a distinction between Jesus and God which I do not, but in deference to your request, I won't use the many miracles Jesus performed. I also see that you don't want to deal with creation, so I won't argue that. Finally you don't want acts where God is punishing, threatening, killing, or requiring others to kill in His name. What you're left with is a myriad of verses where God is dealing in an individuals life, blessing them with prosperity, children, health, good fortune, protection, etc.

This is surely an incomplete list, I eventually tired of the exercise…Note that humans are often the tools God uses in the Bible, but in deference to your question, I did not include the hundreds of passages that talk to humans helping other humans because of their faith or because God directed them to.



Ge 20:17
Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech and his wife and his maids, so that they bore children.

Ge 24:1
Now Abraham was old, advanced in age; and the LORD had blessed Abraham in every way.

Ge 25:11
It came about after the death of Abraham, that God blessed his son Isaac; and Isaac lived by Beer-lahai-roi.

Ge 25:21
Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Ge 26:12
Now Isaac sowed in that land and reaped in the same year a hundredfold *. And the LORD blessed him,

Ge 29:31
Now the LORD saw that Leah was unloved, and He opened her womb, but Rachel was barren.

Ge 30:17
God gave heed to Leah, and she conceived and bore Jacob a fifth son

Ge 39:3
Now his master saw that the LORD was with him and how the LORD caused all that he did to prosper in his hand.

Ge 39:21
But the LORD was with Joseph and extended kindness to him, and gave him favor in the sight of the chief jailer *.

Ex 14:19
The angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind * them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before * them and stood behind * them.

Jos 4:14
On that day the LORD exalted Joshua in the sight of all Israel; so that they revered him, just as they had revered Moses all the days of his life .

Jud 15:19
But God split the hollow place that is in Lehi so that water came out of it. When he drank, his strength returned and he revived . Therefore * he named * it En-hakkore, which is in Lehi to this day.

1Sa 23:14
David stayed in the wilderness in the strongholds, and remained in the hill country in the wilderness of Ziph. And Saul sought him every day, but God did not deliver him into his hand.

2Sa 5:12
And David realized that the LORD had established him as king over Israel, and that He had exalted his kingdom for the sake of His people Israel.

1Ki 4:29
Now God gave Solomon wisdom and very great discernment and breadth of mind, like the sand that is on the seashore *.

2Ch 36:15
The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place;

Da 1:9
Now God granted Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the commander of the officials,

Da 1:17
As for these four youths, God gave them knowledge and intelligence in every branch of literature and wisdom; Daniel even understood all kinds of visions and dreams.

Da 6:22
"My God sent His angel and shut the lions' mouths and they have not harmed me, inasmuch * * as I was found innocent before Him; and also toward you, O king, I have committed no crime."

Jon 3:10
When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.

Jon 4:6
So the LORD God appointed a plant and it grew up over * Jonah to be a shade over his head to deliver him from his discomfort . And Jonah was extremely * happy about the plant.

Joh 1:6
There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Ac 19:11
God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,

In several different threads, during polite, civilized discussion with resident Christians...I have offered the opinion that the god described in the Bible is one of the most reprehensible gods ever offered up for consideration. The god is, I have noted, jealous, vengeful, retributive, quick-to-anger slow-to-forgive, abusive, tyrannical, duplicitous, petty, murderous and barbaric.

It is my contention that most of what this god does and suggests...if done or suggested by a human would result in the human being confined to a hospital for the criminally insane...under restraints that would make those imposed on Hannibal Lecter look positively benign.

I have challenged every Christian (they claim the god is kind, compassionate, and loving of humankind) to offer passages that show their god to be possessed of those qualities rather than the qualities I say it displays. I've asked all of them to offer passages where the god is on the scene and is not threatening someone, killing someone, finding fault with someone, or asking someone to kill others.

None has taken me up on my challenge...and several have offered laughable reasons for not doing so.

I am going to offer a series of thread devoted to discussing some of the passages that show the god to be the low-life I suggest it is. Maybe if we discuss these passages...the light will dawn for some of our Christian brothers and sisters.

I will start by looking at the god's recommendation for how to handle victory in battle:

At Deuteronomy 20:10 the god decrees:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

QUESTION; How many of you think we should have acted as the god of the Bible suggests after World War II? The Germans and Japanese refused to "open their gates to us" and instead "offered battle."

When we defeated them...should we have gone in and killed every last male (of more than a child's age)...and put all the women and children into lifelong slavery?

How would you have felt if some leader of the Allies suggested such a course of action?

Frank, 53 pages and counting. Have you gotten real anwsers yet?

I don't have your patience.

slkshock7,

Well, I guess we all knew THAT was coming.

I see the difference. Do you see the difference? Oh, sorry....that was a detergeant commercial :-)

I again, have to agree... if I understand correctly.

I believe that I and anybody else of any relgion have the right to say "grace" in any manner I choose in a restaurant. I also believe that I have the same right in any other place that I may eat, even if it is in a school. As long as I am doing it quietly and for those who want to join me. I should not, however, take it upon myself to include all those around me. Actlually, this would be the same in a restaurant or a school. As long as it is not the school doing it, I think it should be ok.

As for the Commandments not being in the CourtHouse.... I have a somewhat different take on that. The commandments are God's commandments and are not necessarily adopted by a country, state, province, city or town. I certanly think they should be allowed in a Church, but I do not have a problem if they are not in a Court House or public square.

Frank, 53 pages and counting. Have you gotten real anwsers yet? I don't have your patience?