1
   

Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:06 pm
Phoenix Wrote:

Quote:
Why do we need to speak in terms of "enemies?


Phoenix, I can only say this, I do not treat anyone in the manner I and others have been treated. I think it's just a given here that there are enemies.

I don't Like it, Phoenix, but that just seems to be the way it is working out.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:08 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Phoenix Wrote:

Quote:
Why do we need to speak in terms of "enemies?


Phoenix, I can only say this, I do not treat anyone in the manner I and others have been treated. I think it's just a given here that there are enemies.

I don't Like it, Phoenix, but that just seems to be the way it is working out.


MA...you spend about 90% of all your posts to talk about what a low-life you consider me to be.

The last person in this forum who should be giving lectures on this kind of stuff...is you.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:13 pm
Phoenix - frank very much makes me feel like enemy #1, yet he proclaims he loves us under some certain understanding of his own love.

Love, Respect, Name Calling all go hand in hand and treating your enemy as yourself - I say holy crapola.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:16 pm
Phoenix I believe you know the sincerity in my heart.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:18 pm
Amen!
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:21 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
husker wrote:
love your enemy as yourself - Frank you cannot subscribe to that can you?


Why of course I can. I love these fine folks. Why do you think I am working so hard to save them from the clutches of their fears and their superstitions?


I love you MA...just as I love myself.

I love you Snood...just as I love myself.

I love you Intrepid...just as I love myself.

I love you Real Life...just as I love myself.

Who'd I miss?

I love you Husker...just as I love myself.


Oooh, oooh, me too, Frank. Me too please!!!! Sad
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:24 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
This is for Momma Angel and Intrepid. I'm going to apologize for all my personal attacks, ad hominems, ridicule, and cheap shots made against you for your religious beliefs.

I know that most in my family and friends are people who believe in their religion, and there is no excuse for me to make little of it.

Please forgive me.



If this was sincere it was very big and seems like it is.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:36 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
husker wrote:
love your enemy as yourself - Frank you cannot subscribe to that can you?


Why of course I can. I love these fine folks. Why do you think I am working so hard to save them from the clutches of their fears and their superstitions?


I love you MA...just as I love myself.

I love you Snood...just as I love myself.

I love you Intrepid...just as I love myself.

I love you Real Life...just as I love myself.

Who'd I miss?

I love you Husker...just as I love myself.


Oooh, oooh, me too, Frank. Me too please!!!! Sad


I love ya, Rat!
[/size]
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:38 pm
husker wrote:
Phoenix - frank very much makes me feel like enemy #1, yet he proclaims he loves us under some certain understanding of his own love.


Goes to show ya...I thought we were on the same side of several issues.

But....


Quote:
Love, Respect, Name Calling all go hand in hand and treating your enemy as yourself - I say holy crapola.


Jeez...you should be in my regular foursome...or part of my regular poker game.

This shyt is tame.

And I am considered one of the more courteous of the group.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:31 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
snood wrote:
Yeah, that's a possibility. Another is you'll get corrected for insulting and cursing several people, or maybe (heaven forbid) banned again. From which you'd learn nothing, but the courtesy quotient around here would rise considerably.


Not with you around, Snood.

And with you around...the "intelligence quotient" suffers.


Pointer to an excellent post by Snood that I think you will appreciate Frank.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1510337#1510337
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:36 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
This is for Momma Angel and Intrepid. I'm going to apologize for all my personal attacks, ad hominems, ridicule, and cheap shots made against you for your religious beliefs.

I know that most in my family and friends are people who believe in their religion, and there is no excuse for me to make little of it.

Please forgive me.


I just saw this and I thank you for the apology and also ask that you accept mine for anything that I may have said to offend you. I realize that things are said in the heat of the moment that are really not what we would say if we paused before clicking the keyboard. You have gained my respect for this gesture and again, thank you. I realize that our believes will not change, but perhaps our attitudes can.

Peace brother,
Intrepid
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:46 pm
mesquite wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
snood wrote:
Yeah, that's a possibility. Another is you'll get corrected for insulting and cursing several people, or maybe (heaven forbid) banned again. From which you'd learn nothing, but the courtesy quotient around here would rise considerably.


Not with you around, Snood.

And with you around...the "intelligence quotient" suffers.


Pointer to an excellent post by Snood that I think you will appreciate Frank.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1510337#1510337


Thanks for the kudos, mesquite. but I could really give a rat's what Apisa thinks about that particular post, and have been relieved that he kept his face off of it.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:49 pm
Snood,

You are a hoot my friend! Laughing I just read that post. I posted something to you. You truly are one of America's heroes and I am proud to know you!

God Bless You!

And Cicerone,

I also apologize if I had said anything to you that offended you. Your willingness to accept responsibility for your actions is more than commendable. I believe that your type of attitude is the type of attitude that can make great changes in this world.

I have deep respect for what you did. Thank you so much.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:24 pm
snood wrote:
Thanks for the kudos, mesquite. but I could really give a rat's what Apisa thinks about that particular post, and have been relieved that he kept his face off of it.


It was a great post in my view that deserved recognition. As I have mentioned in the past, my greatest problem with strongly religious people is that so many follow in lock step to support a president that I feel has done great damage to our country. It is indeed refreshing to see a person that has deep religious feelings, that is military, and can still see this administration for what it is.

The best to you.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:43 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
God had chosen the Israelites to be His chosen people. It was His plan to bring the Messiah into the world through them. He had promised them the land of Israel as part of His covenant with them. But God also knew that immorality and evil have a way of spreading through a society unless it is excised out. He knew that if left alone, other people living in the land He gave His people would eventually infest the Israeli society. It was God's desire to live among His people (as in, His presence in the Holy of Holies). But God, being Holy, cannot be present where sin is. God was effectively excising the sin from among Israel by instructing them to utterly destroy those they conquered within the promised land. In a figuretive way, God was trying to teach His people that sin needed to be completely removed if God was to abide with them.

You will notice that at no time did God demand that Israel go about attacking those not within the borders of the promised land and killing all of them. Israel failed to fully obey God's command, and predictably, as time passed, the Israelite society was infected with the habits of those they allowed to dwell among them. They repeatedly turned from God to worship the idols of those they did not destroy.

This is the basis for God's command that you question. God's command was not given to us, but rather was given to a specific people at a specific period of time and for a specific purpose.


If I understand you correctly you are suggesting that the reason God ordered the slaying of conquered peoples was to prevent contamination. The flaw I see in that reasoning is that God only ordered the destruction of cities that did not surrender. Those that surrendered merely got forced labor.

At Deuteronomy 20:10 the god decrees:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

You will also note that in the above passage it was only the males to be killed. Women and children were to be kept as booty.

In another similar passage God is a bit more discriminating and orders all slain but the female children that had not yet slept with a man. To me that implies that not a whole lot of concern was given to sin.

Numbers 31:17-18

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:47 pm
Quote:
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.



Apparently, more than Islam has a "thing" about virgins!
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:20 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
You say that maybe it always just was here. Then why is it such a hard leap of faith to believe that maybe God was always just here and created everything?


As we look around in wonderment at our surroundings, and try to comprehend how it all came about, it is not a great leap of faith to consider that a god may have had a hand in it.

It is however IMO a great leap of faith to claim to know not only that there is a god but to know that it is the god is Bible. Why not the Quran? It is claimed to be written by a prophet more recently than the Bible and it is purported to be error free. Why not the Book of Mormon? It is of much more recent vintage.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:31 pm
mesquite wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
You say that maybe it always just was here. Then why is it such a hard leap of faith to believe that maybe God was always just here and created everything?


As we look around in wonderment at our surroundings, and try to comprehend how it all came about, it is not a great leap of faith to consider that a god may have had a hand in it.

It is however IMO a great leap of faith to claim to know not only that there is a god but to know that it is the god is Bible. Why not the Quran? It is claimed to be written by a prophet more recently than the Bible and it is purported to be error free. Why not the Book of Mormon? It is of much more recent vintage.


As you realize, Mesquite, it is not hard...nor a leap...to "believe" anything one wants to "believe."

The Red Queen from Wonderland "believed" 6 impossible things before breakfast each day.

Some of these people, MA being one, simply do not listen.

Most of the people opposing the Christian perspective in this thread are either agnostics...or very soft atheists. (Sorry Edgar, but I will acknowledge that you are an exception.)

I cannot speak for everyone, but for the most part, we are not saying there is no GOD (as you noted, Mesquite)...and we are not pooh-poohing the notion that there may not be any gods...even though the theist seem to think they can just point to the world and claim it shows there is a God...and pooh pooh the notion that there are no gods.

That thinking is illogical...almost to the point of being bizarre.

In any case...to suppose one can look at the world and claim it is therefore apparent that there has to be a God...

...and then use that as verification that the criminally insane god described in Bible is that God...

...is absurd.

They simply are not able to speak the truth...that they do not know.

MA on several occasions has INSISTED that SHE KNOWS there is a God...and presumably...that god is the barbarian from the Bible.

Well...I guess it takes a very strong stomach to be a Christian....particularly the kind that comes on to the Internet to expound on these weird ideas.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:31 pm
Mesquite Wrote:

Quote:
As we look around in wonderment at our surroundings, and try to comprehend how it all came about, it is not a great leap of faith to consider that a god may have had a hand in it.

It is however IMO a great leap of faith to claim to know not only that there is a god but to know that it is the god is Bible. Why not the Quran? It is claimed to be written by a prophet more recently than the Bible and it is purported to be error free. Why not the Book of Mormon? It is of much more recent vintage.


Fair question. Why not the Quran? Well, the Bible was written way before the Quran and as you said, by a prophet. Now, about the error free part, I'm not sold on that. And, as I have stated before, I believe the Bible is God-inspired and God-breathed and there is no greater author to me. I can tell you why not the Book of Mormon. I read some of that book. Didn't agree with it. I guess I would have to say Mesquite that I did not choose my faith, it chose me. Christianity is what I felt right about in my heart. None of the others I knew of did. It is, yes, a great leap of faith. But, Christianity is based on faith, so, for me, it's not really a leap, it's a step by step lifelong learning process.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:38 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
MA on several occasions has INSISTED that SHE KNOWS there is a God...and presumably...that god is the barbarian from the Bible.


The way I see it, she does not know him as well as she should. Continue with the introduction Frank!
0 Replies
 
 

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