Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
You are right, reality is not based on consensus, but faith is.

Faith is no more based on consensus than it is based on logic or reason.

"Faith", in a religious context, is the blind, bull-headed insistence that a guess about reality is correct.

Something like your contention that it is not.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Phoenix,

I am with Intrepid on that. Seems like you would just be wasting your time.

Frank,

You say that maybe it always just was here. Then why is it such a hard leap of faith to believe that maybe God was always just here and created everything?

I have absolutely no problem supposing that could be the case. I just don't want to be one of the nut cases INSISTING that is the case....based, it appears, on nothing more than a fear of the unknown.

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If you can believe something was never created but was just here, it seems to me that believing that God has always been here isn't much of a stretch.

Do you ever use your brain???????

I HAVE NO F*****G IDEA OF WHETHER THERE IS A GOD OR NOT!

I do not want to do any of your goddam "believing" one way or the other...because the evidence in both directions is ambiguous.

Jesus H. Christ...how many times do I have to type those words before they sink into that concrete brain of yours?

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Frank,

Etymology: Late Greek oxymOron, from neuter of oxymOros pointedly foolish, from Greek oxys sharp, keen + mOros foolish
: a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness); broadly : something (as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongruous elements

To me, it is an oxymoron! Perfect God/God having to prove Himself.

And why do you find it so necessary to call me a moron, or a nut case, or swear?

And, if you don't want any of my believing, then ignore it!

And how many times do I have to ask you to show common courtesy? Why must you appear to be so arrogant? You make it very hard to respect anything you post. I have to read them over and over just to try to find something I might understand or agree with. Mostly what I get is being insulted.

And don't call me a crybaby! Take some responsibility for your actions. How many others do you see here in this forum swearing or calling others names? Why do you feel you have the right to behave this way?

I submit to you Frank, that if not "knowing" (or whatever you call it) gives you license to treat anyone so disrespectfully, then you are probably the strongest argument I know of for believing in a God that wants us to do unto others. And no, that's not a sideways sarcastic remark. It's just the way I feel.

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I make the assumption, and in my little pea brain it is only my assumption, that Frank's only reason for starting or engaging in these discussion is for the sake of arguement. He admits that he does not want to believe one way or the other and seems to find some hormonal thrill in using foul language to ladies. Frank thinks that what he says must be embedded in our concrete brains, but he refuses to discuss in a calm, logical manner. Hysteria does nothing to further a discussion or debate. It only takes us further from the subject at hand. We all know what the reply to this will be.

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Intrepid wrote:

Frank,
I won't use up bandwith by quoting your entire post. Most of it, you have said before anyhow. You asked how I know about water in the universe, the uniqueness of our universe etc. etc. I know this because the scientists tell us it is so.

That is bizarre.

You are telling me that scientists say that water is "practically unknown in the rest of the universe"...as you assert.

NEVER!!!

That is an absurd contention.

You are telling me that scientists say that "our world is unique in the universe"...as you asserted.

That is an absurd contention.

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Do you disagree with them as well, Frank?

Well, I occasionally disagree with science, Intepid...but no reputable scientist would ever agree with your contentions. You are spinning lies here.

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Are you comparing all of creation with a deck of 52 cards?

No I am not. I am attempting to show you the simple minded fallacy that you are attempting to peddle in this thread.

Take a randomly shuffled deck of 52 cards...and note the order of the cards. The odds against that order happening randomly...is astronomical. Do that same thing...one hundred trillion times...and then do it five hundred trillion times that number of times...and note the order of all those events.

The odds against all those gazillion times...happening by change...if calculated...would fill volumes to write.

BUT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OBTAINED RANDOMLY.

You are taking a complex finished product...and assuming that the odds against it happening randomly are huge....but that is logically fallacious.

I don't expect you to "get" this...you have a closed mind.

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Is that the extent of your arguement?

Nope!

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Tell me how the universe could have always been here if God did not create it?

I do not f*****g know.

My guess is...neither do you.

Maybe the same way your God has always been here.

And if you are going to try that tired old "God is outside time and space"....well, maybe time and space are illusions....and the unverse has always existed simply because it has always existed.

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Tell me how matter goes from nothing to something.

I do not know. So tell me how you know that it cannot be?

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Tell me how a rock on the ground suddenly flies through space.

Huh????

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What makes you an expert on logic, Frank?

Intrepid...one does not have to be an expert on logic to see and comment on the absurdities in your logic.

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What a couple of cry-babies.

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Frank,

Have you always been so rude or do you really practice at it? Why should anyone want to believe or agree to anything you say when you cannot show the slightest of common courtesy? Why should I or anyone else respect anything you have to say? I, for one, am really tiring of your hateful attitude.

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http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/Intrepid2/whaa.gif

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Intrepid wrote:

Sorry, but this then begs the question on why you frequent these threads.

Morbid curiosity??? :wink:

Is there any reason that I should NOT frequent these threads? Are the religion threads only open to "true believers"? Do we want to share our views pro and con, or are we looking for a coeterie of people who simply reinforce one another's beliefs, without opening their views to the light of day?

Since, without my desire or approval, religion seems to be having quite a big impact on my life, I really need to be able to attempt to understand what makes a religious person "tick".

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Thank you for your honest answer.

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Phoenix,

I find absolutely nothing wrong with why you state you visit these threads. Actually, some of the things you have posted have caused me to think and do research.

Your honesty is so very appreciated, as is your respectful attitude.

Momma Angel

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MommaAngel wrote:

Your honesty is so very appreciated, as is your respectful attitude.

Thanks!

Although I am not religious, I do see that many of the tenets of religion are applicable to all decent people, no matter what their beliefs. The "Golden Rule" is one of those tenets, and I abide by it.

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This is for Momma Angel and Intrepid. I'm going to apologize for all my personal attacks, ad hominems, ridicule, and cheap shots made against you for your religious beliefs.

I know that most in my family and friends are people who believe in their religion, and there is no excuse for me to make little of it.

Please forgive me.

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Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:

This is for Momma Angel and Intrepid. I'm going to apologize for all my personal attacks, ad hominems, ridicule, and cheap shots made against you for your religious beliefs.

I know that most in my family and friends are people who believe in their religion, and there is no excuse for me to make little of it.

Please forgive me.

Cicerone, your apology is accepted unconditionally. It takes a very big person to do what you just did. I thank you for it.

Momma Angel

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

Have you always been so rude or do you really practice at it?

I have always been frank...and I don't really like to pussyfoot around. If I have something to say...I say it.

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Why should anyone want to believe or agree to anything you say when you cannot show the slightest of common courtesy?

If I said "2 + 2 = 4, you dumb f**khead...would that make my math any the less valid?

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Why should I or anyone else respect anything you have to say?

Well, for one thing, I am really a very charming and fun-loving guy. So if that kind of thing is important...that would be a good reason for you to do so.

Or...you could just look past all the bullshyt stuff...and deal only with the arguments. If you did that...you'd see that my arguments are mostly right on the money. That would be another good reason.

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I, for one, am really tiring of your hateful attitude.

Jeez...I haven't even started with you, MA. We've got a long way to go. Suck it up. You've got to fight this tiredness...or you are going to be left behind.

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Yeah, that's a possibility. Another is you'll get corrected for insulting and cursing several people, or maybe (heaven forbid) banned again. From which you'd learn nothing, but the courtesy quotient around here would rise considerably.

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snood wrote:

Yeah, that's a possibility. Another is you'll get corrected for insulting and cursing several people, or maybe (heaven forbid) banned again. From which you'd learn nothing, but the courtesy quotient around here would rise considerably.

Not with you around, Snood.

And with you around...the "intelligence quotient" suffers.

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love your enemy as yourself - Frank you cannot subscribe to that can you?

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husker wrote:

love you enemy as yourself

Why do we need to speak in terms of "enemies?

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husker wrote:

love your enemy as yourself - Frank you cannot subscribe to that can you?

Why of course I can. I love these fine folks. Why do you think I am working so hard to save them from the clutches of their fears and their superstitions?

I love you MA...just as I love myself.

I love you Snood...just as I love myself.

I love you Intrepid...just as I love myself.

I love you Real Life...just as I love myself.

Who'd I miss?

I love you Husker...just as I love myself.

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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

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