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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

 
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 04:58 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Questioner,

You don't seem to understand a single thing I am saying to you. I try to point out how not all Christians are the same and still that same old thing gets thrown up.

Fine, I tell you what. I will just stop. This obviously is not going to be resolved and I certainly do not want to seem to be arguing with you or anyone else.

I honestly wanted some answers. I thought maybe you could answer some things for me because you said you were a Christian at one time(?). I put that question mark there because I honestly don't remember if you used the word Christian or not.

Perhaps it is my inability to get my questions out the right way.


Some answers to what? I'm sorry, I thought I'd addressed all your questions. I also thought I understood your stance fairly clearly. If you care to reitterate it or your questons at a later time I'd be happy to review and reply to them.

Yes, I was once a baptised Christian, I grew up in a church of Christ and was very active in that church.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 05:04 pm
Questioner,

You have been answering my questions. We just seemed to get a bit sidetracked there. I apologize. I have had a rough week and I am very tired right now so I am definitely not at my best. I will pick this up later with you if that's ok. Perhaps in a PM?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 05:06 pm
No good. I still don't have PM access. But whenever you wish to revisit it I'm open.

Hope your week improves.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 05:07 pm
Ooops! Forgot. Ok, I'm going to take a nap right now and then I have a meeting on the computer at 7:30. I will revist this then.

I do appreciate you being patient with me and answering my questions. I really do.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 08:47 pm
Momma Angel.
Don't know what you get soooo upset about?
The quote you have at the bottom of your posts.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
(The ultimate proof of God's love.)

Great bit of advertising.... To me it says "look what I done, impregnated one of your's, so I could have a son ( when he could easily of Knocked one up out of a bit of dirt ) he then sat back and watched his "son" get nailed up on a timber post and get poked with a spear till he was dead...Then, presumedly, brought back home by dad. (where that was a sign of everlasting love... lost me.) He then tell's that you have to believe in him, or you get stuffed into the oven and cooked for the rest of eternity.

It amazes me that people can still read this and still believe it... I can understand the workings of the minds that composed it all, as it was good advertising to the ignorant masses of that era, but how a educated intelligent mind can make the great leap into mythology and fit it into a sane, out look of life... beats me. but then I have my "beliefs" and you have yours.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 08:47 pm
Momma Angel.
Don't know what you get soooo upset about?
The quote you have at the bottom of your posts.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
(The ultimate proof of God's love.)

Great bit of advertising.... To me it says "look what I done, impregnated one of your's, so I could have a son ( when he could easily of Knocked one up out of a bit of dirt ) he then sat back and watched his "son" get nailed up on a timber post and get poked with a spear till he was dead...Then, presumedly, brought back home by dad. (where that was a sign of everlasting love... lost me.) He then tell's that you have to believe in him, or you get stuffed into the oven and cooked for the rest of eternity.

It amazes me that people can still read this and still believe it... I can understand the workings of the minds that composed it all, as it was good advertising to the ignorant masses of that era, but how a educated intelligent mind can make the great leap into mythology and fit it into a sane, out look of life... beats me. but then I have my "beliefs" and you have yours.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 08:52 pm
lightfoot,

I truly am sorry that you see the Savior of the World in the manner that you do. Would you also say something like this to a friend who would step in front of a bullet for you? Same principle.
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 07:12 am
For that to be a fitting comparison that same friend would also have to be the one to fire the gun, and would then have to demand something in return for his disturbing suicide, threathening to haunt you if you failed to comply.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 08:01 am
lightfoot
Poor deluded soul
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 08:10 am
I think that the entire issue comes down to this:

To those who believe, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't, it does not. "You say to-ma-to, and I say to-mah-to". The only problem is when the to-ma-to people attempt to convince the world that the only way to pronounce the name of their vegetable is THEIR way, and their way connotes a much higher level of moral superiority.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:17 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I think that the entire issue comes down to this:

To those who believe, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't, it does not. "You say to-ma-to, and I say to-mah-to". The only problem is when the to-ma-to people attempt to convince the world that the only way to pronounce the name of their vegetable is THEIR way, and their way connotes a much higher level of moral superiority.


Sounds simple enough. The way I look at it though, at least in the confines of this forum, the believers are usually not the ones who start presenting contentiously. The way I see it, the first shot across the bow usually comes from the non-believers. The comparisons and contentions from the believers are, in my opinion, most times from a defensive stance. there are exceptions of course (see "Atheists - your life is meaningless"), but if one objectively scans the threads, it looks to me as if the challenges to see things one particular way generally start with one of the non-believers challenging a believer to defend one aspect or another of their belief system (as the non-believer understands it).
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:18 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I think that the entire issue comes down to this:

To those who believe, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't, it does not. "You say to-ma-to, and I say to-mah-to". The only problem is when the to-ma-to people attempt to convince the world that the only way to pronounce the name of their vegetable is THEIR way, and their way connotes a much higher level of moral superiority.


Sounds simple enough. The way I look at it though, at least in the confines of this forum, the believers are usually not the ones who start presenting contentiously. The way I see it, the first shot across the bow usually comes from the non-believers. The comparisons and contentions from the believers are, in my opinion, most times from a defensive stance. There are exceptions of course (see "Atheists - your life is meaningless"), but if one objectively scans the threads, it looks to me as if the challenges to see things one particular way generally start with one of the non-believers challenging a believer to defend one aspect or another of their belief system (as the non-believer understands it).
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:45 am
As I see it, the believers started it long before there was an a2k.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:52 am
edgarblythe wrote:
As I see it, the believers started it long before there was an a2k.


Explanation?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:54 am
Better Late Than Never
A new "teaching document" issued by the Roman Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland warns that Catholics should not take the Bible literally -- that it's not infallible.

"We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision," they say in the booklet, "The Gift of Scripture". So what sorts of things aren't accurate? Creation, for one.

Genesis, they note, has two different, and sometimes conflicting, creation stories and cannot be considered "historical." Rather, the bishops say, it simply contains "historical traces."

(I took this off a blog and cannot verify it).
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:56 am
Phoenix,

It's not a matter of being morally superior. It's not. I do not know how to explain it any better than to just tell you it's not moral superiority.

Believers look at Christ's dying as a gift of love. The ultimate sacrifice for us. The troops pay the ultimate sacrifice for us kind of thing. It's very hard for me to understand why non-believers seem to absolutely refuse to see it in that light at all. That is one of the reasons I ask so many questions. I don't understand why so I ask.

snood,

I think you see it exactly the way it is (except with a few rare exceptions). I have been involved in that other thread. The second a believer said something about an atheist's life being worthless, that believer was verbally attacked, as well they should be, because NONE of us have the right to attack others.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 10:01 am
explanation?
In my case, since I can't speak for anyone else, When I was a child I went to church of my own free will. I heard preachers put down atheists and non Christians repeatedly, without provocation. As my own sense of self, truth, whatever progressed, my path led away from the church and Christianity. The believers came at me continually, not wanting "No" for an answer. A simple "I don't want to attend your church" or "I don't believe in God" made them work all the harder to get me into the fold. I never really fought back until after I joined the Navy and certain of them kept at me. Then, it became fun arguing back, sort of like taunting a cocker spaniel that repeatedly snaps at your ankles. Lately, it's the fundies trying to make us have God in every aspect of public life keeps me arguing.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 10:03 am
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I think that the entire issue comes down to this:

To those who believe, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't, it does not. "You say to-ma-to, and I say to-mah-to". The only problem is when the to-ma-to people attempt to convince the world that the only way to pronounce the name of their vegetable is THEIR way, and their way connotes a much higher level of moral superiority.


Sounds simple enough. The way I look at it though, at least in the confines of this forum, the believers are usually not the ones who start presenting contentiously. The way I see it, the first shot across the bow usually comes from the non-believers. The comparisons and contentions from the believers are, in my opinion, most times from a defensive stance. There are exceptions of course (see "Atheists - your life is meaningless"), but if one objectively scans the threads, it looks to me as if the challenges to see things one particular way generally start with one of the non-believers challenging a believer to defend one aspect or another of their belief system (as the non-believer understands it).


One only has to look at the originator of most threads in the religious forums. Are they started by Christians? The vast majority are started by non-believers. This prompts the question as to why this is. Instigation? Insterest? Sincere question?

The next thing to look at is the first response to a post from a Christian in that particular thread. Attack, attack, attack. Then we read that the Christian is defending their faith. Then we read how stupid we are for doing that. Every effort is made to make us look less than Christian and to get our blood boiling so we will retaliate. Unfortunately, we do that sometimes. Even a placid dog will turn when it is kicked enough times.

We hear how the Christians are trying to push their Christian believes down everbody's throat. The fact that the non-believers are pushing even harder in the opposite direction garners nary a glance.

We read how Christians are running the governments and creating turmoil for the masses. This may be true in the U.S. I do not know. I know that it is not true in Canada where we enjoy our freedoms without riots and the like. Some posters seem to forget that the world does not revolve around the U.S. Some posters seem to forget that not everyone acts in the manner that some posters portray them.

There are those that will take the opposing view no matter what the topic may be. It does make me wonder why some of the topics are started if civil discourse is not wanted. It is also amazing that when you see posts that make sense and adequately dispute what may be written....it is ignored as if it was never written. After all, it is easier to attack the more vulnerable.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 10:06 am
edgarblythe wrote:
explanation?
In my case, since I can't speak for anyone else, When I was a child I went to church of my own free will. I heard preachers put down atheists and non Christians repeatedly, without provocation. As my own sense of self, truth, whatever progressed, my path led away from the church and Christianity. The believers came at me continually, not wanting "No" for an answer. A simple "I don't want to attend your church" or "I don't believe in God" made them work all the harder to get me into the fold. I never really fought back until after I joined the Navy and certain of them kept at me. Then, it became fun arguing back, sort of like taunting a cocker spaniel that repeatedly snaps at your ankles. Lately, it's the fundies trying to make us have God in every aspect of public life keeps me arguing.


edgar, Isn't having contentious feelings toward the believers on A2K because of what the "fundies" are doing in the political arena a little silly?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 10:10 am
Intrepid,

Well stated. If we could all just civilly discuss this, it probably wouldn't be as much fun for some. But, it is those civil discussions that we do have that I learn so much from.
0 Replies
 
 

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