High Seas wrote:
Tks Tico! Trust that will address all questions raised by Cycl and Advocate here; that "cover" was blown-blown-blown and nobody told the lady when she mailed her check to the Democratic party. Precisely my point all along.
You guys are falling for head fakes. The fact that the office itself was a fake doesn't mean that the CIA wasn't providing cover for its' agents.
I just don't understand what your point about her mailing the check to the Dem party has to do with anything, HS. Perhaps you can clarify.
Is the point people are trying to make here - since you don't believe that her cover was provided strongly enough by the CIA, that there shouldn't be any consequences to outing her?
Cycloptichorn
Okie's reply: BLAH, BLAH, AND BLAH. It is still unpatriotic to defend those who exposed a CIA spy.
HS, how did a contribution to the Dems blow her cover? This should be interesting.
Advocate: HS, how did a contribution to the Dems blow her cover? This should be interesting.
It's equated to all the contributions made by conservatives to the GOP that blew the cover of all the CIA agents, not just Plame. Blind logic is wonderful, isn't it?
Amigo wrote:Iv'e been looking for you TICO!
I'm ready for round 1324. Iv'e beed studein!!!
Good. And to try and make things fair, I haven't been.
So your playing the fair card are ya.
I aint fallin for that one.
That secret energy meeting Cheney had with the company heads led to our war in Iraq. That's the reason why this administration had to change the justification for this war so often. Usually one justification is needed to involve oursleves in a war that exposes our military in harms way, and for Americans to support it.
That's also the reason no matter what this administration keeps saying about "we'll leave when they ask to us leave," Bush is constructing the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad with 14 permanent bases.
Anybody want to buy a bridge I have to sell in Montana?
Contagious disease is infecting Republicans
There is a contagious disease that I'm afraid has infected many Republicans. There must not be a serum for it, although truth serum would seem the most likely. Those infected try to spread this disease. A main symptom is extreme forgetfulness.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and others in the Bush administration have this symptom, especially when testifying under oath.
It's called IOKIYAR and stands for It's OK If You're A Republican. I'm afraid Mr. (Dud) Lastrapes is also contagious. He is entitled to his own opinions but not to his own facts.
I. "Scooter" Libby lied to the FBI and was convicted of obstruction of justice, false statements and perjury. His lying obstructed any further investigation into the Valerie Plame outing. Lastrapes believes since Libby is a Republican, IOKIYAR.
Plame was a covert agent, as this statement in sentencing memorandum from the Libby trial, based on information cleared by the CIA, shows: "She traveled at least seven times to more than 10 countries. When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity ... At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the U.S."
President Bush has serious blemishes on his record, lots of them a result of IOKIYAR. One more won't make or break his 30 percent approval rating. Time for truth serum for all.
--theadvertiser.com
They don't even know what a "truth serum" is. They have to first begin by understanding the word "truth."
Advocate wrote:Contagious disease is infecting Republicans
There is a contagious disease that I'm afraid has infected many Republicans. There must not be a serum for it, although truth serum would seem the most likely. Those infected try to spread this disease. A main symptom is extreme forgetfulness.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and others in the Bush administration have this symptom, especially when testifying under oath.
It's called IOKIYAR and stands for It's OK If You're A Republican. I'm afraid Mr. (Dud) Lastrapes is also contagious. He is entitled to his own opinions but not to his own facts.
I. "Scooter" Libby lied to the FBI and was convicted of obstruction of justice, false statements and perjury. His lying obstructed any further investigation into the Valerie Plame outing. Lastrapes believes since Libby is a Republican, IOKIYAR.
Plame was a covert agent, as this statement in sentencing memorandum from the Libby trial, based on information cleared by the CIA, shows: "She traveled at least seven times to more than 10 countries. When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity ... At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the U.S."
President Bush has serious blemishes on his record, lots of them a result of IOKIYAR. One more won't make or break his 30 percent approval rating. Time for truth serum for all.
--theadvertiser.com
If they know that LIbby was lying,then it shouldnt be to difficult to continue the investigation,and simply discount his testimony.
Assuming there is anything to investigate,or that a crime was committed originally.
mysteryman wrote:Advocate wrote:Contagious disease is infecting Republicans
There is a contagious disease that I'm afraid has infected many Republicans. There must not be a serum for it, although truth serum would seem the most likely. Those infected try to spread this disease. A main symptom is extreme forgetfulness.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and others in the Bush administration have this symptom, especially when testifying under oath.
It's called IOKIYAR and stands for It's OK If You're A Republican. I'm afraid Mr. (Dud) Lastrapes is also contagious. He is entitled to his own opinions but not to his own facts.
I. "Scooter" Libby lied to the FBI and was convicted of obstruction of justice, false statements and perjury. His lying obstructed any further investigation into the Valerie Plame outing. Lastrapes believes since Libby is a Republican, IOKIYAR.
Plame was a covert agent, as this statement in sentencing memorandum from the Libby trial, based on information cleared by the CIA, shows: "She traveled at least seven times to more than 10 countries. When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity ... At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the U.S."
President Bush has serious blemishes on his record, lots of them a result of IOKIYAR. One more won't make or break his 30 percent approval rating. Time for truth serum for all.
--theadvertiser.com
If they know that LIbby was lying,then it shouldnt be to difficult to continue the investigation,and simply discount his testimony.
Assuming there is anything to investigate,or that a crime was committed originally.
If this were a more standard criminal investigation, you might be correct.
Unfortunately, we are talking about investigating the most powerful group of people in the world, who have special legal protections that most people don't enjoy, who have the best possible lawyers at their disposal, who have unlimited funds for their defense.
Nothing more than first-hand testimony about Intent will be sufficient to build a case against such a group. It is unlikely that this is possible without Libby recanting his lies and telling the truth.
Cycloptichorn
Perhaps Libby's lies and obstruction effectively destroyed Fitz's investigation. Libby was a key actor is Plame's exposure. I hope he goes to prison and finds his true love.
His true love is Cheney; he'll go to prison before he harms his first love.
News Orgs Win Release of Fitzgerald Files on 'Scooter' Libby
News Orgs Win Release of Fitzgerald Files on 'Scooter' Libby
Published: June 29, 2007
E & P
WASHINGTON Midway through his CIA leak investigation, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald was pretty sure of two things: First, he wasn't going to charge White House aide I. Lewis ``Scooter'' Libby with revealing a covert operative. And second, he thought Libby's testimony was a bunch of lies.
Documents unsealed in the case Friday revealed that when Fitzgerald subpoenaed New York Times reporter Judith Miller in 2005, he was already building a perjury and obstruction case against Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.
``Libby's account of conversations has been largely inconsistent with every other material witness to date,'' Fitzgerald wrote in court documents.
Libby was convicted in March of lying and obstructing Fitzgerald's investigation. He faces 2 years in prison unless an appeals court steps in to delay the sentence. He is the only person charged in the case.
Libby's allies have called for a pardon, largely because Libby was not the source for the 2003 newspaper article outing CIA operative Valerie Plame. They accuse Fitzgerald of running amok and using the leak investigation to trap Libby into a perjury case.
The documents unsealed Friday cut both ways.
On one hand, they show that Fitzgerald had no evidence that Libby knew Plame was a covert officer - and thus he could not be charged under a federal law protecting her identity.
On the other hand, they show that Fitzgerald believed Libby might have violated a different law protecting national defense information.
Fitzgerald never charged Libby - or anyone else - with either of those crimes.
But the documents show that Fitzgerald suspected Libby's grand jury testimony and statements to the FBI were false. That was a big part of why Fitzgerald insisted that Miller testify before his grand jury.
Libby told investigators that he learned about Plame from Cheney, forgot about it, then was surprised to hear about it from NBC newsman Tim Russert. He said he passed that second-hand information on to Miller and Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper.
``Miller's testimony is essential to determining whether Libby fabricated his claim,'' Fitzgerald wrote.
Miller spent 85 days in jail in 2005 for refusing to testify. Cooper testified under a court order.
The documents were released following a request by The Associated Press and Dow Jones. The news organizations argued that Fitzgerald never needed the testimony of reporters because he knew the source of the leak all along. Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, the original source for the newspaper article naming Plame, has publicly stated that he came forward to prosecutors early in the case.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit was not persuaded by the media's argument but agreed there was no longer a need to keep much of the information sealed.
``One can safely assume that the 'cat is out of the bag' when a grand jury witness - in this case Armitage - discusses his role on the CBS Evening News,'' the court said.
Information about investigative interviews with President Bush and Cheney remain blacked out, as does information about White House political adviser Karl Rove.
Much of the information released in the documents became public during Libby's trial.
Quote:On one hand, they show that Fitzgerald had no evidence that Libby knew Plame was a covert officer - and thus he could not be charged under a federal law protecting her identity.
On the other hand, they show that Fitzgerald believed Libby might have violated a different law protecting national defense information.
Fitzgerald never charged Libby - or anyone else - with either of those crimes.
So much for the claim by the left that Libby KNEW Plame was covert!!!!
MM, there are laws against obstructing justice and committing perjury. Are you suggesting that these laws should be disregarded?
Would it be fair to grant a pardon to Libby, and not to others who similarly violated the law? I don't think so.
Advocate wrote:MM, there are laws against obstructing justice and committing perjury. Are you suggesting that these laws should be disregarded?
Would it be fair to grant a pardon to Libby, and not to others who similarly violated the law? I don't think so.
I am not suggesting that Libby or anyone else get a pardon.
As a matter of fact,I would oppose such a pardon.
My comment was directed at those who claimed that Libby KNEW that Plame was covert,nothing more.
