Haven't you read enough in this thread to conclude that Libby did know that there was a conspiracy to get back at Wilson by exposing Plame's job? Cheney ordered the exposure, and Libby was his top assistant. He discussed Plame with Judith Miller, who went to jail over the matter. Etc., etc.!
Advocate wrote:Haven't you read enough in this thread to conclude that Libby did know that there was a conspiracy to get back at Wilson by exposing Plame's job? Cheney ordered the exposure, and Libby was his top assistant. He discussed Plame with Judith Miller, who went to jail over the matter. Etc., etc.!
Are you ignoring BBB's own link?
This is from his own link...
Quote:The documents unsealed Friday cut both ways.
On one hand, they show that Fitzgerald had no evidence that Libby knew Plame was a covert officer - and thus he could not be charged under a federal law protecting her identity.
So,Libby DID NOT know she was covert,so he cant be charged because there was no intent.
Dont read more into my statement then was there.
I think it is convenient for you to believe the document. Any fair analysis will tell you that Libby knew, and that he was in on it from the beginning.
I think the statement is a legal finding, which means in this case that there is insufficient evidence to try Libby on this issue. That doesn't require you to turn off your common sense.
mysteryman wrote:Advocate wrote:Haven't you read enough in this thread to conclude that Libby did know that there was a conspiracy to get back at Wilson by exposing Plame's job? Cheney ordered the exposure, and Libby was his top assistant. He discussed Plame with Judith Miller, who went to jail over the matter. Etc., etc.!
Are you ignoring BBB's own link?
This is from his own link...
Quote:The documents unsealed Friday cut both ways.
On one hand, they show that Fitzgerald had no evidence that Libby knew Plame was a covert officer - and thus he could not be charged under a federal law protecting her identity.
So,Libby DID NOT know she was covert,so he cant be charged because there was no intent.
Dont read more into my statement then was there.
You are confusing 'Fitzgerald didn't have evidence' with 'Libby didn't know.' You can't make that affirmative statement, because you have no idea whether or not it is true.
Cycloptichorn
In this case, the Bush opponents motto is "guilty until proven innocent."
Nevermind the fact that Fitzgerald has never claimed that any original crime was ever committed, only that he finally found somebody to convict for lying to a grand jury about his memory of what he told people about a non-crime years ago.
okie: "...only that he finally found somebody to convict for lying to a grand jury about his memory of what he told people about a non-crime years ago. "
Why do I get the feeling that this is not the same conclusion concerning Bill Clinton for the conservatives?
A veritable judicial b*tch-slapping, for sure.
I'm still holding out hope that Libby will flip. That is the usual plan for cases like this. I guarantee you he's going to be thinking about the 'ride the Scooter' games that he'll have to deal with in prison when he lies in bed tonight; a powerful incentive.
Cycloptichorn
Does anyone really have a doubt that Bush will pardon? Libby has a lot to say, and Bush is going to keep Libby happy and silent.
Bush will flip before Scooter does.
Advocate wrote:Does anyone really have a doubt that Bush will pardon? Libby has a lot to say, and Bush is going to keep Libby happy and silent.
I doubt he will pardon. There is some question as to whether or not it would be a good legal move; I'm not completely familiar with the laws in question, but I'll look into it tonight.
Cycloptichorn
Bush has commuted the sentence so that Libby does not not have to go to jail. The conviction will stand, and he will be subject to probation.
Bush figures that this will avoid political consequences from an outright pardon. I am not so sure.
BBB
The Wilsons still have a civil lawsuit against those who leaked Mrs. Wilson's CIA identity.
Libby's fines and guilty status and probation remains; he won't be able to practice law. He just won't go to prison.
Libby and Bill Clinton were both found guilty of the same crime: perjury and obstruction of justice. Will the Senate now void Clinton's impeachment? Will the Republicans support it?
BBB
Bush Commutes Libby's Prison Sentence
July 2, 2007
Bush Commutes Libby's Prison Sentence
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
New York Times
President Bush said today that he had used his power of clemency to commute the 30-month sentence for I. Lewis Libby Jr., the former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, who was convicted of perjury in March and was due to begin serving his time within weeks.
The action, announced just hours after a federal appeals court denied Mr. Libby's request to allow him to remain free while his case is on appeal, spares Mr. Libby his prison term, but it does not excuse him from stiff fines or probation.
In a statement issued early this evening announcing his decision, Mr. Bush said he had listened to both critics and defenders of Mr. Libby, who was convicted of four felony counts for lying during a C.I.A. leak investigation.
"I respect the jury's verdict," Mr. Bush said. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend 30 months in prison."
Like a pardon, a commutation is a form of clemency, granted to the president by the Constitution. But a pardon is an official act of forgiveness, whereas a commutation simply reduces the penalty, without making an official judgment of forgiveness.
Mr. Bush has been urged by some conservatives to grant Mr. Libby an outright pardon.
The president noted in his statement that the decision to commute "leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby."
"The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged," Mr. Bush said. "His wife and young children have suffered immensely. He will remain on probation."
The unanimous decision earlier today by a three-judge panel, which had been widely expected, upheld a ruling of Judge Reggie B. Walton, who presided over the trial of Mr. Libby.
Judge Walton had ruled that the issues being raised on appeal by Mr. Libby's lawyers were not substantial enough to have a strong chance of succeeding, which meant that under the law the sentence should not be delayed.
In June, Mr. Libby was sentenced to 30 months in prison and a $250,000 fine after he was convicted in March of obstructing justice and lying to a grand jury and F.B.I. agents who were investigating the disclosure of the identity of a Central Intelligence Agency operative, Valerie Wilson.
The president's decision drew praise from Mr. Libby's defenders. "That's fantastic. It's a great relief," said former Ambassador Richard Carlson, who helped raise millions for Libby's defense fund. "Scooter Libby did not deserve to go to prison and I'm glad the president had the courage to do this."
But some Democrats assailed Mr. Bush's move. Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, a Democratic presidential candidate, the commutation of Mr. Libby's sentence "cements the legacy of an administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law."
Nothing new: most expected the commutation from Bush.
Re: Bush Commutes Libby's Prison Sentence
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:July 2, 2007
Bush Commutes Libby's Prison Sentence
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
New York Times
President Bush said today that he had used his power of clemency to commute the 30-month sentence for I. Lewis Libby Jr., the former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, who was convicted of perjury in March and was due to begin serving his time within weeks.
The action, announced just hours after a federal appeals court denied Mr. Libby's request to allow him to remain free while his case is on appeal, spares Mr. Libby his prison term, but it does not excuse him from stiff fines or probation.
In a statement issued early this evening announcing his decision, Mr. Bush said he had listened to both critics and defenders of Mr. Libby, who was convicted of four felony counts for lying during a C.I.A. leak investigation.
"I respect the jury's verdict," Mr. Bush said. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend 30 months in prison."
Like a pardon, a commutation is a form of clemency, granted to the president by the Constitution. But a pardon is an official act of forgiveness, whereas a commutation simply reduces the penalty, without making an official judgment of forgiveness.
Mr. Bush has been urged by some conservatives to grant Mr. Libby an outright pardon.
The president noted in his statement that the decision to commute "leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby."
"The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged," Mr. Bush said. "His wife and young children have suffered immensely. He will remain on probation."
The unanimous decision earlier today by a three-judge panel, which had been widely expected, upheld a ruling of Judge Reggie B. Walton, who presided over the trial of Mr. Libby.
Judge Walton had ruled that the issues being raised on appeal by Mr. Libby's lawyers were not substantial enough to have a strong chance of succeeding, which meant that under the law the sentence should not be delayed.
In June, Mr. Libby was sentenced to 30 months in prison and a $250,000 fine after he was convicted in March of obstructing justice and lying to a grand jury and F.B.I. agents who were investigating the disclosure of the identity of a Central Intelligence Agency operative, Valerie Wilson.
The president's decision drew praise from Mr. Libby's defenders. "That's fantastic. It's a great relief," said former Ambassador Richard Carlson, who helped raise millions for Libby's defense fund. "Scooter Libby did not deserve to go to prison and I'm glad the president had the courage to do this."
But some Democrats assailed Mr. Bush's move. Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, a Democratic presidential candidate, the commutation of Mr. Libby's sentence "cements the legacy of an administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law."
THank you for posting that.
This is the first I have heard of it.
Question...Do you agree with Bush's decision?
MM
MM, no, I don't agree with Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence. Bush tried to protect his action by commutation instead of a pardon.
Will Bush also commute or parden Dick Cheney when his crimes finally result in a guilty verdict?
My my, who will be left to pardon Bush? Alberto Gonzales? And on and on down the line until we get to dog Barney?
BBB
BBB
New York Times Editorial: Soft on Crime
New York Times Editorial
Soft on Crime
Published: July 3, 2007
When he was running for president, George W. Bush loved to contrast his law-abiding morality with that of President Clinton, who was charged with perjury and acquitted. For Mr. Bush, the candidate, "politics, after a time of tarnished ideals, can be higher and better."
Not so for Mr. Bush, the president. Judging from his decision today to commute the 30-month sentence of I. Lewis Libby Jr., who was charged with perjury and convicted, untarnished ideals are less of a priority than protecting the secrets of his inner circle and mollifying the tiny slice of right-wing Americans left in his political base.
Mr. Libby was convicted of lying to federal agents investigating the leak of the name of a covert C.I.A. operative, Valerie Wilson. Mrs. Wilson's husband, Joseph Wilson, was asked to investigate a central claim in Mr. Bush's drive to war with Iraq whether Iraq tried to purchase uranium from Africa. Mr. Wilson concluded that Iraq had not done that and had the temerity to share those conclusions with the American public.
It seems clear from the record that Vice President Dick Cheney organized a campaign to discredit Mr. Wilson. And Mr. Libby, who was Mr. Cheney's chief of staff, was willing to lie to to protect his boss.
That made Mr. Libby the darling of the right, which demanded that Mr. Bush pardon him. Those same Republicans have been rebelling against Mr. Bush, most recently on immigration reform, while Democrats in Congress have pursued an investigation into whether Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney lied about Iraq's weapons programs.
All of this put immense pressure on the president to do something before Mr. Libby went to jail. But none of it was justification for the baldly political act of commuting his sentence.
Mr. Bush's assertion that he respected the verdict but considered the sentence excessive only underscored the way this president is tough on crime when it's committed by common folk. As governor of Texas, he was infamous for joking about the impending execution of Karla Faye Tucker, a killer who became a born-again Christian on death row. As president, he has repeatedly put himself and his team, especially Mr. Cheney, above the law.
Within minutes of the announcement, the same Republican commentators who fulminated when Paris Hilton got a few days knocked off her time in a county lockup were parroting Mr. Bush's contention that a fine, probation and reputation damage were "harsh punishment" enough for Mr. Libby.
Presidents have the power to grant clemency and pardons. But in this case, Mr. Bush did not sound like a leader making tough decisions about justice. He sounded like a man worried about what a former loyalist might say when actually staring into a prison cell.
It's too bad most of the mud of this administration will probably come out after they are all gone from Washington DC. Fear?
