8
   

This is Biden's America

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 04:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
There is the right of self defense and the right to rescue the damsel in distress. But when in a foreign country you don't automatically own that country and its resources.

Wrong. If we put a great deal of effort into developing those resources, we do own a large share of those resources.

And wrong again. Our support of democracy and human rights is not about resources. It is about democracy and human rights.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 04:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
So you favor 20 year wars of no goals or discernable progress.

Only a progressive could look at democracy and human rights, and see no progress.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
I'm trying to understand the net good but haven't found it yet.

That's because you're a progressive.

Non-progressives see democracy and human rights as a net good.


edgarblythe wrote:
There are so many examples of malevolence and greed.

Not on the part of the US. But there are plenty of such examples on the part of the terrorists and evil dictators that you always support.


edgarblythe wrote:
Why do we have so many bases in Africa and elsewhere that does not threaten us?

All those terrorists and evil dictators that you constantly embrace do in fact threaten us.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
I just don't understand the support for these actions.

Progressives hate America and don't want us to protect ourselves.


edgarblythe wrote:
Before Bush launched his invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban tried to negotiate the turning over of bin Laden. They said that if the US provided proof the man was guilty they would turn him over. Alternately they offered to turn him over to a third country. Bush said, no negotiating. The stalemate resulted in an invasion and a settling in that made no sense.

It makes sense to those of us who think American civilians are worth protecting.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Had the west treated Iran with respect instead of threats and undermining them with sanctions I always believed they could have become allies.

In reality Iran has constantly chosen to be our enemy ever since 1979, and we have sanctions on them because of their atrocities.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:24 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
That's what it takes to be king of the hill.

That's what it takes to survive at all.

Even without being king of the hill, you still need protection if you want to survive in a world full of people who want to harm you.

Without our strong military, America would quickly be enslaved or even worse.


InfraBlue wrote:
Humanitarian rationalization are merely doublethink.

It's not a rationalization. Many Americans value democracy and human rights.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:27 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Extreme language coupled with monochrome thinking.

Right is right and wrong is wrong.


izzythepush wrote:
Oralloy is the same, everything he disagrees with he calls evil.

You have that backwards.

Everything that I call evil, I disagree with.

Disagreeing with evil is part of being a good person.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 05:39 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
Wrong.

Nope. Not wrong. There was no miscount.

But if there had been, it would have been your miscount. Those figures were pulled from your post.


neptuneblue wrote:
You only counted six out of the 20 years American military personnel perished.

Of course. I've always been open about the fact that I am only quoting those years.

Since those are the only years that are relevant to the current situation in Afghanistan, those are the only years that should be quoted.

I'm also excluding the death toll from America's invasion of Iwo Jima in WWII if you're curious.


neptuneblue wrote:
It seems you can't acknowledge the facts from your fiction.

No such fiction. You cannot point out any untrue statements in my posts.
vikorr
 
  0  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 07:07 pm
That was just bemusing..........................Does anyone think it's actually worthwhile replying to monochromatic spam?
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 08:30 pm
@vikorr,
Just because you lack the ability to challenge what I say and wish that you could do so, that is no reason for you to act like such an infant.

I know infantile behavior is standard for demented progressives, but being a demented progressive is no reason to act like a demented progressive.
vikorr
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 08:38 pm
@oralloy,
Ditto what I said above - extremely monochromatic. Most everyone has been able to challenge you. You never comprehend it, being so extreme in B&W thinking. And you call most everyone that takes issue with your 'logic' liars etc. So there's no point.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 08:58 pm
@vikorr,
Wrong. Your childish personal attacks do not challenge anything that I have (or anyone else has) written.

The fact that it is all that you are capable of doing is beside the point. It still does not count as challenging anything.

And stop whining. If you do not want to be called a liar then stop lying about people.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 10:30 pm
This insipid b*stard murders all useful dialogue.
Holds it down and pounds it over the head with dullard drivel until it’s dead, or the thread is closed, or both.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Fri 3 Sep, 2021 11:23 pm
Maybe it's not too late to reset the thread. We've gone off topic. My purpose in beginning this thread was not to "get" Biden but to assess where he is taking us and consider alternatives. Also the other Biden thread seems to be about almost anything but the president. I feel his time is slipping away to accomplish his best stated goals, as modest as they are. We've got to get some positives going. I will criticize and wish, but frankly I don't feel good about the way it's all ironing out.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 06:20 am
@edgarblythe,
Best way to do it - move the conversation back to the intent.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 07:26 am

Carla R ✍🏾Open book
@CarlaRK3
How judges are contributing to homelessness during the pandemic. Meanwhile landlords boldly explain that not even money (paid rent) will stop them from evicting people. Landlords also on the record as refusing to provide necessary paperwork that allows tenants to get assistance.
Quote Tweet
Diane Standaert
@dianestand
· Sep 2
Scene in online eviction court today: Landlord tells the judge,"She applied for the rent relief program. I haven't given the program the information they asked for.I don't want their money. Even if I got the money, I'd give it back." Judge granted landlord's request to evict her.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 08:15 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

More people should know this story. Never forget Hugh Thompson. Trouble is, for every USAmerican like him there are twenty others like Cally, Medina, and the guys who carried out their orders.


It was not the same time as today with a now professional army. People was drafted against their wishes and then dump into a jungle war with little training under the command of also lightly train officers also for the most part.

By the time they got their feet under them their term of service was almost over.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 10:20 am
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/04/texas-abortion-law-becomes-a-gop-24-litmus-test-494207
A SPLIT IN BIDENLAND? — For months, the Biden White House has been effective at staying on message and preempting leaks about internal rancor. One notable exception flared up Friday, as WaPo’s Jeff Stein reported on the frustrations brewing throughout the administration over the upcoming unemployment benefits cliff — and what, according to Stein, many staffers see as President JOE BIDEN’s unwillingness to do anything about it.

Where we’re at: On Monday, roughly 10 million Americans will lose at least some unemployment benefits — including 7 million who will lose all benefits. That’s because the federal bump in state unemployment benefits will lapse, a decision made earlier this year, when Sen. JOE MANCHIN (D-W.Va.) announced his opposition to extending the boosted UI benefits past Labor Day. And the White House isn’t budging from that timeline.

All of it is feeding growing frustration at Biden, both within his own administration and among outside allies: There’s a cavalcade of voices in the story who are critical of Biden’s decision on this, ranging from the AFL-CIO to Dem-aligned think tanks (“This is the biggest benefits cliff in American history,” says JUDY CONTI of the National Employment Law Project) to progressive elected officials like Rep. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-N.Y.).

— The politics of it all has the makings of another split where Biden is siding with Manchin over progressives — right as those two sides are fighting about the size and scope of the reconciliation package and timing of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Speaking of which …

BUDGET BEEF — The fight between moderates and, well, every other Democrat in the House over the size, scope and timing of the reconciliation package is getting tougher. Reps. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-Fla.) and HENRY CUELLAR (D-Texas) are out with three big demands, as our Nicholas Wu reports:

— They want the budget bill to be “pre-conferenced” with the upper chamber, calling that a prerequisite to “obtain our support.”

— They want the bill to be fully paid for (with the exception of its climate provisions).

— And they want members to be given at least 72 hours to review the legislation before it comes to the House floor.

Asked whether the 72-hour provision would mess up the timeline for advancing both bills, Murphy said that’s up to her progressive colleagues, who she hopes “will act responsibly when the transportation bill comes to the floor. It is a much-needed investment in America’s infrastructure, and one would hope they would vote to make this needed investment.”

Something else to keep an eye on: Remember when moderates received a Sept. 27 deadline for a vote on the BIF? Well, the House isn’t scheduled to come back until seven days before that deadline — giving them a small window to ensure the two-track plan stays … on track. Add the 72-hour requirement, and it becomes even more difficult.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 03:20 pm
Environmental Groups Sue Biden Admin to Block Record Offshore Oil Lease Sale

https://truthout.org/articles/environmental-groups-sue-biden-admin-to-block-record-offshore-oil-lease-sale/?fbclid=IwAR1DX_vwS6i4deyFPcZTsQomRAYYCiuiECscxu9ZgEAvlspAd5szZXPjb9g
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Sun 5 Sep, 2021 09:43 am
Drowning Our Future in the Past

Quote:
WASHINGTON — It isn’t a pretty picture.

One coast is burning. The other is under water. In between, anti-abortion vigilantes may soon rampage across gunslinging territory.

What has happened to this country?

America is reeling backward, strangled by the past, nasty and uncaring, with everyone at one another’s throats.

Post-Trump, we let ourselves hope that the new president could heal and soothe, restore a sense of rationality, decency and sanity. But the light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be just a firefly.

We feel the return of dread: We’re rattled by the catastrophic exit from Afghanistan; the coming abortion war sparked by Texas; the Trumpian Supreme Court dragging us into the past; the confounding nature of this plague; the way Mother Nature is throttling us, leaving New Yorkers to drown in their basements. And now comes Donald Trump, tromping toward another presidential run.

It feels as if nothing can be overcome. Everything is being relitigated.

We’re choking on enlightened climate proposals but the disparity between the disasters we see, and what’s being done in Washington, makes it feel as though nothing is happening except climate change. We’re so far from getting a handle on the problem, the discussions around it seem almost theoretical.

Joe Manchin, tied to the energy industry, balks at climate change provisions in the reconciliation bill. He should be looking for ways to get West Virginia in touch with reality rather than living in the past.

“Manchin’s claim that climate pollution would be worsened by the elimination of fossil fuels — or by the resolution’s actual, more incremental climate provisions — is highly dubious, if not outright false,” The Intercept reported, noting that the truth is that Manchin’s personal wealth would “be impacted.” Since he joined the Senate, The Intercept said, he has grossed some $4.5 million from coal companies he founded.

With its new abortion law, sending women back to the back alley and encouraging Stasi-like participation from the citizenry, Texas now becomes the capital of American unreason. The law “essentially delegated enforcement of that prohibition to the populace at large,” wrote Chief Justice John Roberts.

There were medieval fiefs more enlightened than the Lone Star G.O.P.

Between putting women in danger by pushing that law and putting children in danger by imposing his anti-mask mania on school districts that want to mask up, Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas has become a scourge of the first rank.

A cynical slice of the Republican Party — and this includes Trump — privately denigrates anti-abortion activists as wackos, but publicly moves in lock-step with them in order to cling to that base and keep power.

But the anti-abortion forces were somehow clever enough to hijack the Supreme Court and Republicans will have to contend with the backlash when the court tosses Roe v. Wade aside.

As botched as the withdrawal from Afghanistan was, at least Joe Biden was trying to move into the future and do triage on one of America’s worst mistakes.

And unlike other presidents — J.F.K. with the Bay of Pigs, L.B.J. with the Vietnam War and Barack Obama with the Afghanistan surge — Biden did not allow himself to be suckered by the generals, the overweening Ivy Leaguers and the Blob, the expense account monsters who keep this town whirring and always have a seat at the table, no matter how wrong they were, and are.

The Afghanistan tragedy, as James Risen wrote in The Intercept, was just two decades of Americans lying to one another, and it “brought out in Americans the same imperial arrogance that doomed the U.S. involvement in Vietnam.”

Unlike his three predecessors, Biden risked Saudi ire by directing the Justice Department and other agencies on Friday to review and declassify documents related to the F.B.I.’s investigation into 9/11. Families of 9/11 victims had been pushing for the release of the secret files to learn more about the role the Saudis played in the attacks.

The enablers of our misbegotten occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq have been shrieking like banshees at Biden, trying to manacle him to their own past mistakes as he attempts to lift off.

With peerless chutzpah, Tony Blair called Biden’s decision to depart cynical and driven by an “imbecilic political slogan about ending ‘the forever wars.’”But Biden knew enough not to spend more lives and treasure to prop up a kleptocracy. He oversaw some bad weeks in Afghanistan but George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld should be blamed for 20 bad years.

Remarkably, as Jon Allsop pointed out in The Columbia Journalism Review, the word “Bush” was not mentioned once on any of the Sunday news shows the weekend Kabul was falling.

“He looks like the Babe Ruth of presidents when you compare him to Trump,” Harry Reid, the former Democratic Senate majority leader, told The Washington Post’s Ben Terris, for a story this past week on Bush nostalgia.

With a memory like a goldfish, America circles its bowl, returning to where we have been, unable to move forward, condemned to repeat a past we should escape.

nyt/dowd
 

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