This is Biden's America

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

snood wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

The end games being played depend on perpetual conflict. Biden has realized only partially that it has to end. It will take one or two more presidents to get the whole message if ever they do.

You do realize, don’t you, that you’re speaking as if your understanding of world affairs far supercedes that of the president’s (and the one after him, and the one after that)?

Think of it this way: How often did you think you knew more about
things than Trump? Or SCOTUS? THe government of Texas? It's not such a big leap in the light of what's plainly visible before our eyes to know when the government is screwing up, regardless of who the leaders are.

I suppose…

It was just your whole “presidents don’t see the big picture like I do” that threw me a little.

1 Reply

@snood,

After so many years of the kinds of results we see it becomes apparent when somebody is peeing on our shoes and telling us that's rain.

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@edgarblythe,

Well, sometimes you do get what you pay for. Pay people for not working and you get people not working. Every restaurant and fast food outlet in my town are advertising for help. This was not the case before enhanced unemployment.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Heard of the Mai Lai Massacre?

You had no problems allowing that evil to exist.

Was that the time that an american helicopter crew saw american troops killing civilians below them and then landed between the civilians and those troops threatening the troops with the helicopter machine guns to stop the killings?

Quote:

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html

Then Thompson and his crew chief, Glenn Andreotta, and his gunner, Lawrence Colburn, “saw some civilians hiding in a bunker, cowering, looking out the door. Saw some advancing Americans coming that way. I just figured it was time to do something, to not let these people get killed. Landed the aircraft in between the Americans and the Vietnamese, told my crew chief and gunner to cover me, got out of the aircraft, went over to the American side.”

We know that Americans committed a massacre 50 years ago today; and we also know that an American stopped it.

What happened next was one of the most remarkable events of the entire war, and perhaps unique: Thompson told the American troops that, if they opened fire on the Vietnamese civilians in the bunker, he and his crew would open fire on them.

“You risked your lives,” I said, “to protect those Vietnamese civilians.”

“Well, it didn’t come to that,” he replied. “I thank God to this day that everybody did stay cool and nobody opened up. ... It was time to stop it, and I figured, at that point, that was the only way the madness, or whatever you want to call it, could be stopped.”

3 Replies

@BillRM,

So what?

The perpetrators got off Scot Free.

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@BillRM,

Going by your logic, because a German, Claus Von Stauffenberg, tried to kill Hitler there was no need for any war crimes trials at Nurembourg.

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@BillRM,

More people should know this story. Never forget Hugh Thompson. Trouble is, for every USAmerican like him there are twenty others like Cally, Medina, and the guys who carried out their orders.

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@hightor,

I can’t believe your ratio would apply to soldiers.
I can’t believe there are 20 callous, mindless murderers for every one conscientious soldier.

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@snood,

We both have been military. We know the ratio is not that.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

In fact, in 20 years I did meet men that I had the feeling had joined the military partially for the opportunity to kill people.
But thankfully I only met a few. Most people I knew were trying to do their jobs and live good lives just as I was.

1 Reply

@snood,

Sorry; I exaggerated. In my experience it was more like 50-50. But the fact that so many of the soldiers at My Lai participated in the atrocity and in the coverup does show that, under certain conditions, mindless murderers seem to emerge from the ranks. Remember, the army was desperate for soldiers then and drafting everyone they could.

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@snood,

Quote:

In fact, in 20 years I did meet men that I had the feeling had joined the military partially for the opportunity to kill people.

I think the point is that something can snap and guys who would never have said they'd do anything like that find themselves caught up in barbaric emotions they can't control.

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@hightor,

You are right that something can snap. I saw some people who in civilian life had probably lived like doormats but became blown up like toads in the military. But not a huge percentage.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

In Max Hasting’s book about WW2 he talks about the police groups in Eastern Europe at the beginning of the Russian invasion.

One police chief told his group they had a rather unpleasant task and they could opt out if they wanted.

Basically they had to clear all of the Jewish people out of a certain neighbourhood and kill them. Nobody was forced to do anything, everybody who took part volunteered. About 30-40% refused to take part, of those who did about half had to stop after killing one or two people, but the rest had no problem killing dozens or more.

Now volunteer police forces in occupied Nazi Europe are a far cry from those of a democracy, but the point remains, they didn’t take much persuasion to start committing atrocities.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Can't argue with facts.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
In fact, in 20 years I did meet men that I had the feeling had joined the military partially for the opportunity to kill people.

I think the point is that something can snap and guys who would never have said they'd do anything like that find themselves caught up in barbaric emotions they can't control.

There’s more than just one “point” here.
Yes, crazy situations bring things out of people.
I don’t buy your ‘50-50’ either, if it means that soldiers are just as prone to senseless slaughter as they are to responsible actions.

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Julian Assange speaking in 2011: "The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war" #Afghanistan

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Julian Assange has a long history of lying about the US. Remember his dishonest "Collateral Murder" video on Wikileaks?

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

The countries that produce the terrorists do so because of the heavyhanded exploitation by imperialism, of which the US is number one these days.

Wrong. The US is not imperialist, and imperialism is not responsible for people choosing to become terrorist criminals.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Our side started it.

Wrong. Your terrorist buddies started it. We are only defending ourselves.

edgarblythe wrote:

Terrorism is the only way they have to respond, mostly.

Wrong. Your terrorist buddies, being the ones who actually started it, had the option of not starting it in the first place.

They could also choose to fight without deliberately targeting civilians.

edgarblythe wrote:

Our leaders continue to radicalize those people and create an endless stream of opponents.

Our leaders do nothing of the sort.

0 Replies

This is Biden's America

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