12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
blatham
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Much of the American legal system is foreign to me.
But these ideas give me some doubts about the knowledge of some "influential" people about their own legal system. And thus also about their education and ability to fulfil responsible political tasks.

What I've bolded is indeed in question. As we recall, the GOP did not even advance any version of a party platform for the last election. They never came up with an alternate substantive plan for replacing the Affordable Care Act. They have advanced no viable plan for the budget dilemma. The list of what they have not done in terms of fulfilling responsible government tasks for years now is very long and stretches far, far past any actual policy plans.

What drives and has driven the modern GOP for decades is strategizing access to and solidification of power. Asking or expecting more of this modern party seems rather like expecting that Trump, after this indictment, will finally arrive at that point where he behaves in a manner all will acknowledge is truly presidential.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:24 am
@blatham,
Now, all my life, when I go to the polls, I look first at the manifesto and then at the party platform of the various parties.
Sure, you can demand a lot, but at least solutions must be recognisable.

What bothers me most, however, is when - as here - the entire legal system is called into question without any alternative solutions (Everyone chooses their own judge? Police/FBI only investigate if the accused likes it? Public prosecutors are only allowed to indict if there is populist support for it?)
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:25 am
(The "Rising Fascism" thread is closed for now)

The Truth About Our Civilization’s Fascism Problem Is Even Worse Than You Think

When Even Its Happiest Country Goes Fascist, Something’s Going Very Wrong With a Civilization

Quote:
Here’s a funny, dark, absurd juxtaposition that sums up just how much trouble our world is in. Quick, what’s the world’s happiest country? Finland. That research just came out a few days ago. Guess who just went…pretty…fascist? LOL, Finland. I exaggerate, but only a little. Finland just had an election where the second place party turned out to be the new, far right, “True Finns,” and you don’t have to think too hard to guess what the “true” is code for.

So how can…LOL…what is this even, an episode of Black Mirror…the world’s happiest country…now be on the leading edge of a fascist wave? What kind of bizarre non-sense does that make? If we’re happy…why would we go fascist?

Today’s an historic day. The first indictment of an American President in history. It matters more — far more — than many of us suspect. Want to think. Because it comes in a certain context: the rapid decline of democracy globally.

Take the events of just the last few days leading up to Trump’s indictment. In once gentle Finland — of all places — the Social Democrats placed a distant third, behind the “True Finns,” a far right party of extremists, with resonance to, of course, Trumpism. In France, protests are still raging nationwide, after Emanuel Macron forced through a needless rise to the pension age. Just the last few days — and that comes after a year when cracks emerged in the European Project, the far right ascendant from Italy to Sweden.

By now, we take for granted the sudden rise of the far right. But we shouldn’t. Because this is a force fundamentally hostile to democracy.
It is authoritarian, if not overtly fascist. It is only interested in democracy insofar as it can use its mechanisms to undo it — like, of course, in Florida, where the governor, Ron DeSantis, is busy banning books, criminalizing doctors and teachers and families, purging universities, and more’s sure to come.

Political scientists put this great trend of the Age of Extinction in an anodyne way, which understates, even obscures the truth. “Democratic backsliding.” Or should we better call it the rise of authoritarianism and fascism? History’s pretty clear on that score. Orwell and Arendt would hardly mince words.

This juncture is far more critical than most of us think. If I’d told you even just ten years ago that the far right would be ascendant in Europe — of all places — you would have laughed at me. If I’d told you that an American President would have led a bloody coup on the steps of Congress, you would have rolled your eyes at me and called me an “alarmist.” And yet here we all are — taking this threat for granted, more or less.

The most sophisticated form of democracy on the planet isn’t America. It’s Europe. And when the European project cracks and teeters, as its beginning to, we should all pay attention.
And we should pay attention to America, too — because it’s beginning to lead the fight back against the far right, sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes in large ones.

What do I mean by that? Consider the founding of modern Europe. Its entire idea was to prevent the far right ever rising again. Modern Europe, rebuilt in the ashes of the war, did something remarkable, that led to what later obeservers like me would call the European Miracle. It took the relatively small amount of investment that America gave it — which was all it had — and used that in a way that was fundamentally new in human history. Instead of spending it on arms, or giving it to elites, it used it rewrite constitutions which guaranteed everything from healthcare to education to transport as basic, fundamental, universal rights.

This was the point of Keynes’ magisterial insight into why the War had happened.
Germans, declining into sudden poverty, destabilized by debt, had undergone a political implosion. Economic ruin had had political consequences. The consequences of “the peace” as Keynes said — the peace of World War I, which had been designed to keep Germany impoverished. Fascism erupted as a result. And so after the Second World War, Europe did something bold, unprecedented, and remarkable in all of human history — it offered its citizens these cutting edge social contracts, rich in rights for all, built institutions to enact them, from pension systems to high speed trains, and then formed a political union on top of that, to make sure that peace, this time, remained.

And here we are. All of that is fraying. Let me say that again, because I think people often fail to fully grasp this point. That is a century of modern history. Which contains some of the most vital lessons that we have about peace, violence, democracy, and how they all cohere, hang together, exist in a fragile equilibrium. All of that is now what’s fraying. Think about that for a moment. The lessons of World War I. Of World War II. Of the European Miracle, in which living standards rose, in one human lifetime, improbably, to history’s highest, anywhere, ever. All of that is what’s being lost.

The European far right is ascendant, of course, because America began the trend. It was in America that the modern far right rose. And way back when — a decade now — figures like myself and Sarah Kendzior predicted it. We saw figures and facts and realities which alarmed us. I remember the day that research came out saying the American middle class was now a minority. I saw Weimar Germany flashing before my eyes. I wrote about it — and back then, nobody much wanted to believe it. Fast forward just a few short years, and Trump was in office, and that was after plenty of denial that he could ever be President, too.

It’s not about point scoring. It’s about understanding. What we are really dealing with here, which is an historic threat.

Our modern world was designed — all of it — to prevent all this from ever happening again. Now, we can debate, as leftists will, whether that design was cynical, in a sense, or not — to prevent the far left ever rising, too. But that’s almost besides the point. From Europe to America, decades of gains are being reversed now.

That link isn’t being made often enough, because those decades of gains are different. America’s behind Europe, a long way. So in America, decades of gains being reversed look like women losing their basic freedoms of privacy and expression and association. Books being banned. A fanatic in Congress appearing on 60 Minutes and — amazingly — getting away with smearing everyone from liberals to the LGBTQ as “pedophiles.” In Europe, those reversals are different. The loss of the feeling of modernity that Europe had, and still does, to an extent — the sense of harmony, peace, trust, and community. Replaced by a new kind of hostility, rage, resentment, fear, alongside the ancient demon of scapegoating. And yet while these reversals look different, the theme is very much the same.

And so is the goal. You see, the European far right is of course watching and learning from the American far right. How have Europe’s fanatics been so successful — in what was once the wold’s stronghold of social democracy? Well, they’ve observed their American counterparts closely. They’ve learned to run for local office. To target working class constituencies, who feel left behind, with convenient scapegoats. Culture wars. To blame, in short, the woes of the pure and true — the “real Finn” — on the nearest powerless social group, women, gays, refugees, immigrants, journalists, intellectuals, Jews. Make no mistake that the European far right has learned, and learned well, from the American one. And that its goals, too, are the same.

So we see a strange kind of carnival mirror when we look at democracy today. Europe is ahead of America — but America teaches us the future of Europe, too, should the far right go on ascending. Book bans. Sudden erasures of basic rights. The desire to cleave society into a permanently riven place, where demonic figures are out to get your wife, kids, jobs, home, land. Pedophiles, groomers, enemies of the people. Their books must be banned. They must be criminalized and shunned. They must be taught a lesson. Europeans don’t see the danger — and yet they don’t quite grasp, either, that in America, all this has happened in the last few years, astonishingly fast, too.

Meanwhile, Europe teaches America what is really lost when it turns to the far right.
What do Europeans enjoy, still, even though it’s teetering now, that Americans don’t? All those rich, sophisticated social contracts, one supposes, which guarantee them everything from high speed transport to cutting edge healthcare.

But there’s more than that. All that creates — or did for a very long time — a feeling that doesn’t exist in America. A sense of community. A kind of peace, which you can readily see in the absence of gun massacres in Europe, even though, yes, there are guns, if not quite so many. Stronger social bonds and ties — Europeans still have friends, and in America, friendship itself has become a luxury. All that matters.

And yet all this is breaking down, incredibly fast, in shockingly dire ways, which Europeans are severely, severely underestimating. They look at America and think: that could never happen to us! But what else does the European far right want? It’s a mistake of the highest order to think it’s anything else.

Let’s go back to the juxtaposition I raised at the beginning. The world’s happiest country…is now on the leading edge of a fascist wave. What does that tell us?

Here’s what it tells me. Remember the story I told you about seeing a single statistic — the American middle class becoming a minority for the first time in history, way back a decade ago — and being shocked by it, because it was that significant? This is like that. It’s another statistic that takes my breath away, because it portends ill, that ill, for the future.

What this means is that the fascist wave of the 21st century is now so powerful, so ascendant, that even the highest forms of defense we have against it are no longer fully successful.
It is a strain against which the old vaccines are no longer as potent. The highest defense we had against fascism? If you’ve understood this story I’ve told you so far — and it’s been long because I want you to really understand it — then the short version goes like this. The best defense we have against fascism is happiness. Human happiness comes from just what Keynes said it would: universal rights, investment, a strong social contract, robust institutions. In the absence of all that, humanity regresses. All the old demons — war, conflict, violence, by way of hate, spite, resentment, scapegoating, Big Lies — pour out of history’s broken bottle.

You can think of many, many defenses against fascism — which is just shorthand, it doesn’t just mean “political” fascism, it means hate, spite, rage, violence, writ large. From simple ones, like laws against hate speech, to more complex ones, like indictments of a President who led a coup. But of all these? The most advanced, sophisticated and powerful one we know of is…human happiness itself. Fascism is born of rage, fear, despair, which drives people into the arms of demagogues, who blame all those woes on hated subhumans, “others” — and so the truest antidote we know of to all that is human happiness itself.

But what does it say when happiness is no longer an effective antidote to the far right? To fascism? To the hate it preaches and the violence it threatens?

Then we are in serious trouble. Historic trouble. Just like the day I read that the American middle class had finally become a minority, and I exhaled sharply, seeing history’s omen rising — that’s the feeling, the knowledge, I have, seeing this juxtaposition.

If happiness — the highest amount of it we know how to produce — isn’t enough to defend against fascism, which is really just violence, hate, spite, rage, by way of authoritarianism…then, my friends, we are in real trouble.

Because now we are in uncharted water. Think again of what I’ve discussed above. And no, I’m not presenting any of this to you as academic research — we’re just talking. Connecting dots. Trying, as ever, to trace the elusive outline of history. When the highest heights of happiness our civilization knows how to produce no longer vaccinate us against fascism, then we are in a new place.

Because for the last century or so, since the last war ended, that has held true. We knew how to produce happiness — all those cutting edge social contracts, institutions, the expansion of universal rights, which, yes, really did make Europe history’s happiest set of societies. And you could feel it. Step off a train or plane into London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Rome, and you could sense — in seconds — how much happiness there was. Not in the trivial sense — the American fake smile. The real one. People existing, coexisting, laughing, loving, embracing, arguing, shouting, living. Europe became famous for this joie de vivre, and it was the expression, the enactment, of the statistical fact that happiness prevailed.

But now it doesn’t. Statistically, sure, Europe is happy. But that finding is also now increasingly meaningless, because, well, what can “I’m so happy I’ve decided to embrace the hate and spite of the fascists” really mean? We may have “happiness” as a statistical notion, but quite clearly, what is symbolized by it is eroding. People may say they’re “happy,” but that no longer means they feel secure, stable, safe, and so they are turning, in the classical, textbook sequence, right into the arms of demagogues, whether Donald Trump, whose hold over his base remains unbroken, or the, LOL, “True Finns.” Think about it for a moment. Finland doesn’t just have one of the world’s most advanced social contracts — it’s one of history’s most advanced societies, period. It is a pinnacle of what our civilization can achieve. It is the happiest kind of society we know how to produce. But if even that level of happiness is now so eroded and corroded, it means nothing when it comes to defending against fascism, violence, conflict, hate, spite….then that is an incredibly dark omen for the rest of us. For our civilization.

That’s a complex and subtle set of thoughts. Does it make sense, a little bit? Let me try to sum it up, using an overly simplistic metaphor, which shouldn’t be taken literally, but might be instructive. Imagine a civilization in which some level of happiness, let’s call it an 8, has protected against regress — violence, hate, spite, demagogues, coalescing in the form of fascism. Societies that have hit that mark, through a lot of hard work — advancing their constitutions, social contracts, institutions — were thought to be more or less impregnable. They’d ascended to a new and stable equilibrium. Hit this level of development — and you can’t go back to the lower one.

But now, suddenly, that civilization finds that it’s not true anymore. Things seem to have gone haywire. Even societies with that happiness level of 8 are plunging into conflict, rage, hate, all of which are being tapped by organized fascists. As a result, democracy itself is under threat, civilizationally. So much so that even the society with the highest happiness level of all is now succumbing to the fascist wave.

What does that civilization do? Where does it go? Its intellectuals, those who are left, feel as if their hearts have stopped — because all the teachings and learnings they spent a lifetime mastering no longer hold true. At the most fundamental level. Whatever happiness this civilization knows how to produce — it’s no longer enough for it to stay civilized. Why did that happen? How is it happening? What’s behind it? Nobody much can really say, except that the plight of the average person is insecure, troubled, that everything does seem unstable and precarious, from the economy to life to the future.

That civilization is us, my friends. We are in greater trouble than we know. When I see a civilization, a world’s, happiest society…turning fascist? Something is very wrong. Something on the scale of “America’s middle class just imploded.” It is a dire, dark omen, which says to me that our civilization is unable to produce enough of what’s necessary — stability, security, optimism, confidence, cohesion, self-efficacy, trust, truth all of which add up to happiness — to prevent that too often has been inevitable. Collapse.

It’s in that sense, too, that the indictment of Trump matters. Is it enough? Of course not — for fraud relating to hush money for a porn star, not…storming Congress in a bloody coup. But at least it’s something. Perhaps it will help wake the world to its plight. Or perhaps we will go on sleepwalking into this no-future. Fascism, on a dying planet, which is coming a little truer every single dark day now.

umairhaque
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
(In Germany, by the way, the legally competent judge is determined in advance by the legal regulations of the legal process,
regulations of the court and the court division, as well as the court's business allocation plan.
This is to prevent, for example, a case-related exchange of judges.)
0 Replies
 
candide1984
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:36 am
@hightor,
How is it apparent I somehow am expecting an unwarranted reception here?? This leads me to think you believe you feel you have some type of cliquish status in this remote forum and any new comer is a pathetic attention seeker of the cool kids. Yes please, skip my reception I so obviously am seeking from the cool kids. I think I'll get over it. Anyways have you ever looked at the books removed from the classrooms in Florida?

How did the the demonstration on Jan 6th receive so much attention and an entire year of Antifa, BLM violence complete with the burning of buildings including court houses and police stations. physical mob beatings of perceived "conservative fascist Nazis". I am a conservative political activist. We actually have to put work into preserving the history of the violence that took place during that time of "mostly peaceful protest" in that roughly two year period of "Defund The Police" and the "autonomous zone" in Portland because the liberal Democrat wants to erase it. Censor that it ever happened so they don't have to take responsibility for the rape and murder that happened because law enforcement couldn't respond in the "autnomous zone".That rape victim is real. today and for the rest of her life that rape happened in the "autonomous zone" of a liberal utopia where ACAB (all cops are bad). But Jan 6th needs to be exploited defiantly. The movie 2000 mules needs to be made inaccessible to the public so we can't even talk about it. you can just tell me in public i'm an idiot and the case is settled without watching 2000 mules. And it's never questioned why they made it so hard to see. If you can effectively deny the people information and truth that supports conservative ideals and then publicly berate me you see that as a victory. As a virtuous confirmation of the righteous liberal. This road has been walked before.

hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:54 am
@candide1984,
Quote:
How is it apparent I somehow am expecting an unwarranted reception here??

This is what I said:
Quote:
Apparently you're not getting the reception you feel you deserve.

I said that because you seem to be upset that people here are not in general agreement with you. Any sense you made by bringing up the Portland "autonomous zone" is pretty much negated when you suggest, with a straight face, that there is anything worthwhile about "2000 Mules" (which is still available for viewing):

Quote:
A documentary directed by conservative commentator Dinesh D’Souza claims it can prove widespread fraud was carried out during the 2020 presidential election in the United States. Reuters Fact Check examined the main claims presented in the film and did not find any concrete evidence definitively showing proof of fraud.

The 90-minute film "2000 Mules" sees D’Souza team up with True the Vote, a Texas-based nonprofit that describes itself as protecting election integrity (www.truethevote.org/about/), to investigate alleged voter fraud in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

All five of the listed states were swing states in 2020 that ultimately backed Joe Biden for president - and were later central to baseless speculations of fraud.

Reuters has covered this topic extensively (here) and (here), as well as in fact checks (here), (here) and (here).

D’Souza’s documentary says Biden victories in swing states could be thanks to 2,000 people – or “mules” – who were hired by unnamed nonprofits - dubbed “stash houses” - to conduct “ballot trafficking”, i.e.: stuffing numerous drop boxes with potentially fake absentee ballots.

It also alleges that the so-called “mules” were paid $10 for every fake ballot they submitted.

D’Souza did not respond to multiple requests for comment from Reuters.

THE METHODOLOGY

D’Souza and True the Vote analyzed surveillance footage of drop boxes mostly from Georgia, as well as “some” from Arizona, along with “geotracking” data purchased from unnamed brokers.

The “geotracking” data was gleaned from cellphone apps pinpointing device location and movements between Oct. 1, 2020, and election day, Nov. 3, for Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, according to the documentary. Data for Georgia stretched until January, when there was a runoff vote.

The documentary alleges that by tracking phone locations to the addresses of five alleged “stash house” nonprofits and 10 or more drop boxes, the “mules” were identified.

There were 242 people in Atlanta, Georgia, who fitted the bill; 200+ in Arizona; 100 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; 500+ in Michigan, and 1,000+ mules in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania – totaling over 2,000 “mules”.

Viewers were then shown multiple surveillance footage clips of different people at drop boxes, which the documentary said it had identified as some of the ballot traffickers carrying out their crimes.

GEOTRACKING

Multiple concerns were raised by experts speaking to Reuters about the “geotracking” portion of the documentary. It was unclear whether the same test was applied anywhere other than the swing states in question (to prove a unique phenomenon had happened), along with data validity, accuracy, and discussion about other possibilities that could explain the findings.

“The entirety of the claim rests on cell phone location data, which doesn’t remotely show that people were actually using the drop boxes (it doesn’t have the granularity to show that, as opposed to just walking or even driving by),” said Kenneth R Mayer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who spoke to Reuters via email.

According to True the Vote founder Catherine Engelbrecht, who spoke in the documentary, the dataset had been validated because it was used by the organization to solve two murder cases that were “ebbing on cold case status”.

Only one murder case was detailed as an example in the documentary – that of eight-year-old Secoriea Turner on July 4, 2020, in Atlanta – and which authorities told NPR was solved without anything to do with Engelbrecht (here).

D’Souza, meanwhile, claimed without offering evidence that the dataset had the “reliability of a fingerprint”, expanding in a later podcast interview that it was accurate to between “12 and 18 inches” (here).

Experts speaking to Reuters disagreed.

“I have never heard that geotracking using cell phones could have errors as low as 12-18 inches,” said Chen Qian, Associate Professor at the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at University of California, Santa Cruz. “This range is way below the ranges reported by scientists and engineers.

“A research paper written by AT&T and Purdue University researchers in 2020 predicted that the average location error of 5G networks would vary from 2 meters to >10 meters,” said Qian. “Note their results are simulated results in ideal settings, used for predictions. They are not real experiments, because 5G has not been available everywhere. In real environments the errors would be larger.” (here)

Moreover, drop boxes tend to be in high-traffic areas such as public libraries, shopping malls, municipal buildings, or schools. For example, a map of drop boxes in the five metro Atlanta counties of Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton shows that all are clustered in busy locations likely to have high cell phone activity (here).

“My local drop box is in my public library, a location I pass probably 20 or 30 times a week,” said Paul Gronke, Director of the Elections and Voting Information Center at Reed College in Oregon (evic.reed.edu/). “Did I deposit 20 ballots or is my drop box on a heavily trafficked street? You tell me.”

True the Vote said in the documentary it had ruled out people where it believed their “pattern of life” outside the election period involved travelling to nonprofits and drop box locations. They did not offer information on how they did this or who these people were.

However, Barry C Burden, Director of the Elections Research Centre at the University of Wisconsin- Madison (elections.wisc.edu/), told Reuters via email that there were still acceptable reasons for observed heightened activity during election periods.

He said: “Some of the individuals tracked might even have been election workers checking on or emptying the drop boxes, so it would be a sign of vigilance by election officials rather than nefarious behavior.”

SURVEILLANCE VIDEO

To corroborate the geotracking dataset, True the Vote said it had compared it with surveillance video covering locations of some of the drop boxes.

They claimed to have access to 4 million minutes of footage, which was mostly from Georgia. The documentary makers said some of the surveillance cameras were turned off in Arizona and that there was no footage from Wisconsin. No information was provided about surveillance footage from Michigan or Pennsylvania.

Reuters was unable to examine these alleged minutes of footage, but the videoclips presented in the documentary alone do not provide proof of fraud.

When Reuters asked Engelbrecht via email how “mules” identified via geotracking data were then matched to surveillance footage, she responded: “Matches are made by comparing the location and time stamp of the video to the location and the time stamp of the individual device.”

The documentary shows several surveillance clips said to reveal “mules” stuffing fake ballots in the drop boxes.

In one clip, a couple of ballots appear to drop to the floor as one man goes to post; the documentary makers suggest this is suspicious, as well as the man allegedly posting the ballots late at night.

In another, a woman wearing a face mask and gloves is seen posting a ballot before turning to place her gloves in a nearby bin. It is claimed in the documentary that she is a “mule” because she was wearing gloves (to hide her fingerprints) and did not look at the bin, so must have had prior knowledge of it being there. The documentary makers did not appear to consider the possibility that the woman was wearing gloves, along with her face mask, as a personal protective measure against COVID-19.

The unidentified woman was also said to have visited “dozens and dozens” of drop boxes; however, no other clips of her, nor any further evidence, were shown.

Two other clips show men in separate locations taking photos of themselves posting their ballot, which the documentary makers allege was to provide evidence of the job done so the “mules” can get paid.

In a Fox News interview, Engelbrecht claimed the average number of visits by a "mule" to a drop box was 38 (here). Yet none of the surveillance videos showed the same person more than once.

BALLOT HARVESTING VS FRAUDULENT BALLOTS

Some of the people in Georgia who were presented in surveillance footage as so-called “mules” were seen posting more than one ballot at once, which the documentary makers suggested was proof of voter fraud.

But this doesn’t necessarily constitute fraud. Ballot harvesting, the posting of completed ballots on behalf of a third party, is legal in several states, including Georgia (n-thhere).

“Some of the so-called “mules” might have been legitimate family members putting in ballots in Georgia,” said Theodore Allen, Associate Professor at Ohio State University, specializing in the administering of elections.

“Many people need encouragement to vote and offering to collect and bring to ballot boxes is, in many states, a legal and legitimate way to increase voter participation which is often low.”

Reuters also spoke to M.V. (Trey) Hood III, Professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Georgia, to understand the legality around dropping off multiple ballots. He said that issues of ballot harvesting and fraud have been conflated, and there are protections in place in Georgia to prevent the posting of fraudulent ballots.

“[In Georgia] In 2020 we were using signature verification to verify absentee ballots, so there were safety mechanisms in place to ensure it wasn’t a fraudulent ballot.”

He added: “I haven’t seen any hard evidence being offered up that these ballots were fraudulent.”

Reuters looked into a video posted in May claiming to show one such “mule”. Pennsylvania county authorities debunked the “evidence” by confirming it showed a designated agent dropping ballots off on behalf of individuals who are unable to (here).

Ultimately, ‘2000 Mules’ speculates that the so-called ballot-traffickers were dropping off fraudulent ballots – but the film does not prove this. The ‘faked’ ballots were never opened and inspected, nor were the suspected “mules” on surveillance questioned, aside from one anonymous “informant” who says she never saw inside the supposed fraudulent ballots.

COULD BALLOTS BE FORGED?

The documentary claims its investigation reveals the potential existence of 380,000 overall fraudulent ballots. And, it claims, if all of these contained falsified votes for Joe Biden, the revelation is significant enough to have blocked a win by Donald Trump.

Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: “1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you’ve somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?

“2) You need to successfully forge the voter’s signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.

“Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.”

Gronke’s sentiments were echoed by Christopher B. Mann, Associate Professor of Political Science at Skidmore College, who told Reuters: “If there are 400,000 people who had their ballot collected and returned for nefarious reasons, there should be significant numbers of people willing to tell their story. It is hard for two people to keep a secret. Asserting that 400,000 people are keeping a secret is beyond credibility.”

Reuters has previously explored the safeguards in place that make forging ballots on behalf of others difficult (here), (here).

2020 ELECTION FOUND SAFE AND SECURE

False claims pedaled by former U.S. President Donald Trump and his followers blaming widespread voting fraud for the 2020 election results have been rejected by courts, state governments and members of his own former administration (here).

U.S. election security officials have said the election was “the most secure in American history” (here), (here).

Former U.S. Attorney General William Barr, the nation's top law enforcement official under Trump, said on Dec. 1, 2020, that he had not seen any evidence of fraud that would have changed the election results (here).

Furthermore, more than 50 lawsuits brought by Trump or his allies alleging election fraud or other irregularities were dismissed by state and federal judges (here).

VERDICT

The documentary “2000 Mules” does not provide any concrete, verifiable evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election. Technology and election integrity experts consulted by Reuters also did not find the geolocation, surveillance or any other information presented showed plausible evidence of fraud.

reuters
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 09:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure about your, "Trump seems almost inevitable"...but Trump better be watching his back. The Frankenstein he created can be a bitch.


Sure can. It's like watching vicious wolves.
0 Replies
 
candide1984
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 10:19 am
@hightor,
The reflection and discussion of what took place at the Portland "autonomous zone" is negated because of a reference to a totally unrelated movie?? Uhhh, ok I guess. I really don't argue much anymore with liberal logic. Do I now ask if you've even seen 2000 mules or do I assume your sources have made it clear to you you don't have to bother to see it for yourself? Have you asked yourself why democrats go through so much trouble to keep information from you? Theirs not much more reason to talk to you if you haven't. You've made a decision for others to make decisions for you so I have no place in it.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 10:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
What bothers me most, however, is when - as here - the entire legal system is called into question without any alternative solutions (Everyone chooses their own judge? Police/FBI only investigate if the accused likes it? Public prosecutors are only allowed to indict if there is populist support for it?)
Oh yes. Those are the sorts of things that destroy a functioning (f imperfect) democracy
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 10:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure about your, "Trump seems almost inevitable"...but Trump better be watching his back. The Frankenstein he created can be a bitch.

My meaning there was not that a Trump electoral victory is inevitable. Rather it was that the arrival of a demagogue shaped like Trump seems an inevitable result of the changes/radicalization of conservatism in America.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 11:22 am
Michigan Dems under Gov Whitmer just repealed the state's abortion ban.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 11:22 am
@candide1984,
Quote:
The reflection and discussion of what took place at the Portland "autonomous zone" is negated because of a reference to a totally unrelated movie??

It's not a syllogism, I'm simply stating my reaction to your post. The fact that you're willing to accept "2000 Mules" as anything other than propaganda makes me doubt that an even-handed discussion with you about Portland is possible. Next you'll be recommending documentaries by Stew Peters.
Quote:
Have you asked yourself why democrats go through so much trouble to keep information from you?

No, I haven't. What "information" am I missing?

Mame
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 11:52 am
@blatham,
Great news!
0 Replies
 
candide1984
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 11:55 am
@hightor,
It's funny i'm an ex-leftist borderline Marxist activist and your using exactly the same tactics I used to. You could be me 15 years ago. Exactly the same strategies I used . You don't know I know, that I was just like you. You believe your in an ideological contest but your a product. I was a product of the same thing.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 12:02 pm
Fascists tell such stupid lies.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 01:40 pm
@candide1984,
So sometine in the last 15 years you fell down the rabbit hole. Got it.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 03:27 pm
Here’s a fun bit of trivia from the NY indictment. The official NYPD police report lists Trump’s weight at 270. Not the 225 or 237 he’s always claiming. One quip I read on Twitter was, “Well, at least Trump finally got to 270.”
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 03:40 pm
@snood,
That's a good joke!
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 03:40 pm
@snood,
Sounds like his golf score which reportedly he lies about too
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Apr, 2023 04:11 pm
Do you remember last year when then Speaker Pelosi traveled to Taiwan to meet with its leaders and show US support for the country? The outcry from the Republicans was long and loud – she was going to start World War III. I haven't heard any criticism of Speaker McCarthy meeting the Taiwanese president in California. Youngkin's planning a trip to Taiwan later. If I didn't know better I'd suspect a double standard.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.2 seconds on 12/22/2024 at 01:41:38