12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 03:45 pm
@roger,
Trump was the worst president in our history, no competition for the title.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 03:49 pm
@georgeob1,
I view it as pinchers from left and right bearing down on our cities. Both are equally corrupt. Biden is a pisspoor excuse for a president, even if better than Trump.
snood
 
  1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 04:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
Well, at least you’re not kicking him while he’s down.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 04:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Trump was the worst president in our history, no competition for the title.

Mr. Trump didn't try to violate people's civil liberties for fun. That makes him a better president than Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 05:30 pm
@snood,
I am not one them hysterically crying Biden effed up the Afghan withdrawal. It was always going to be a shitshow. Everybody wringing their hands and crying about it didn't show much concern for 20 years, no matter who got killed. Now it's suddenly pile on Biden over it.
Builder
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 05:33 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Biden is a pisspoor excuse for a president


Even funnier, is that someone has to remind him several times a day what his role is supposed to be. Ideal fodder for his handlers.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:07 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
It was always going to be a shitshow.

No it wasn't. We could have remained there indefinitely at little cost.


edgarblythe wrote:
Everybody wringing their hands and crying about it didn't show much concern for 20 years,

That's because for 20 years no one betrayed Afghanistan and handed them over to our shared enemy.


edgarblythe wrote:
no matter who got killed.

Few Americans or other NATO members were being killed in the training of the Afghani army.


edgarblythe wrote:
Now it's suddenly pile on Biden over it.

Traitor Joe is the person who betrayed everyone. It stands to reason that he will be reviled for his betrayal.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:42 pm
@edgarblythe,
Obama decided to release several terrorists who had been incarcerated in Gitmo as part of his plan to close Gitmo. The released terrorists rejoined the Taliban afterwards instead of abjuring violence.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:46 pm
America also released another leader of Taliban forces after Obama left the white house in a nod to Obama's lenient policy. Who's the one to blame?
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:07 pm
Another reason why America can't win this war is other Muslim nations don't even mind becoming chummy with the Taliban behind the scenes, particularly Saudi Arabia and Qatar, despite being rivals in the Middle East. The UAE looks daggers at ISIS, yet there are no signs that it wants to cut the Taliban down to size with America. And Pakistan has been a supporter of the Taliban for years.

To put it another way, America has been gulled.
goldberg
 
  -2  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:14 pm
The only trustworthy ally in the Middle East is Israel.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:28 pm
@goldberg,
That is true.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:30 pm
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:
Another reason why America can't win this war is other Muslim nations don't even mind becoming chummy with the Taliban behind the scenes, particularly Saudi Arabia and Qatar, despite being rivals in the Middle East.

But we were winning it. We could have kept propping up the Afghani army forever at little cost to ourselves.
goldberg
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:47 pm
@oralloy,
I know, I know. But the Afghan security forces and the Afghan government were plagued by corruption. They didn't even want to fight for its own nation unless they received financial backhanders from America. Translation: they joined the army simply because it's a chance for them to get paid and receive protection. You know you can't win any war when soldiers lack the will to fight.

A British author wrote a book claiming that lots of Afghan families tend to send their different sons to join both the Afghan security forces and Taliban forces. And tribal loyalties hold sway in Afghanistan , not loyalty to one nation. Only a few troops stationed in Panjshir valley would like to fight for freedom.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 07:51 pm
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:
But the Afghan security forces and the Afghan government were plagued by corruption. They don't even want to fight for its own nation unless they receive financial backhanders from America. Translation: they join the army simply because it's a chance for them to get paid and receive protection.

Yes, but so what? It still props up Afghani democracy.


goldberg wrote:
You know you can't win any war when soldiers lack the will to fight.

We were winning. We could have kept the Afghani government propped up forever. All we had to do was not stop doing it.
goldberg
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:02 pm
@oralloy,
Could be . Some pundits also argue that Biden thought it was a perfect opportunity for him to gee up his liberal base; most liberals support Biden's decision to withdraw its troops out of that war-torn place . They would also prefer to vote for his party in the next mid-term elections.

He may be walking a tight rope
0 Replies
 
Rebelofnj
 
  2  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:53 pm
Withdrawing From Afghanistan May Be The One Thing Biden And Trump Agree On

Quote:
In Afghanistan the world is witnessing disastrous consequences associated with a rare area of agreement between President Biden and his predecessor, Donald Trump.

Both presidents saw the 20-year war in the remote and rugged country as an unwelcome inheritance and an albatross. For Trump it was the prime example of the "forever wars" he promised to end, a salient promise of his "America First" campaign. Frustrated in his initial efforts to truncate the U.S. mission, Trump finally bypassed the Afghan government to negotiate directly with the Taliban. The deal with them that he signed on Feb. 29, 2020 promised to pull all U.S. troops out by May 1, 2021.

Biden did not reverse this course when he took office, although he did push back the pull-out to September. He wanted more time to remove U.S. forces and, if necessary, evacuate U.S. civilians as well as Afghan interpreters and others who helped the U.S. war effort. He was advised he would have a period of weeks or months to do this after September

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/18/1028607717/strange-bedfellows-indeed-the-trump-biden-consensus-on-afghanistan

It seems odd that conservatives have supported the Trump Administration's "America First" isolationist policies (the promise of ending American involvement in foreign wars) but apparently fighting in Afghanistan is the sole exception to those policies.
Rebelofnj
 
  3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 09:23 pm
@Rebelofnj,
The NPR article briefly mentioned former National Security Advisor John Bolton's memoirs in regards to Trump's deal with the Taliban.

Here is the full passage from Chapter 13 of his book (I got a not quite legally free PDF copy of his book but I have yet to read it):
Quote:
Since I resigned [10 September 2019] Trump resumed talks with the Taliban, which were just as detrimental to the United States as before. Combined, however, with the October withdrawal debacle in Syria, a clear unforced error by Trump personally, political opposition to surrendering in Afghanistan grew stronger. Nonetheless, on Saturday, February 29, 2020, the United States and the Taliban signed an agreement that, in my view, looked very much like the agreement that had come unstuck in September.

This still being the Twitter presidency, I tweeted my opposition that morning: “Signing this agreement with Taliban is an unacceptable risk to America’s civilian population.This is an Obama-style deal. Legitimizing the Taliban sends the wrong signal to ISIS and al Qaeda terrorists, and to America’s enemies generally.” Trump responded in typical fashion at a press conference a few hours later, saying of me, “He had his chance; he didn’t do it.”

The preceding chapter demonstrates, to the contrary, that this Afghanistan deal is entirely Trump’s. Time will prove who is right, and the full effects of the deal may not become apparent until after Trump leaves office. But there should be no mistaking this reality: Trump will be responsible for the consequences, politically and militarily.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Mon 23 Aug, 2021 09:32 pm
The war was a cottage industry for weapons makers and others who raked in the dough. It was never intended to be won or to end. Trump just took the necessary step in spite of that. The only thing positive about his entire life was that deal.
Builder
 
  0  
Tue 24 Aug, 2021 03:15 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
The war was a cottage industry for weapons makers and others


A war requires one nation to openly threaten another nation, and/or enact violence after threats. That never occurred, and you know it, Ed.

It was an invasion, and an ongoing occupation, and I'm not surprised that after twenty years of training up the locals, that they folded like a stack of cards, the minute the invading force packed up and pissed off.

The Mujahideen, originally recruited, radicalised, trained, and armed, by the US CIA, to defeat the invading USSR forces, were left to their own devices, so they took over the nation. History has a way of repeating itself, doesn't it, Edgar?

The photos of these "rebel" fighters with neatly pressed robes, and coiffed hair, sitting for professional photo sessions, are much too glamorous to be convincing.
 

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