8
   

Poll: Trump got banned from Twitter for inciting violence. Do you care?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2021 11:00 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

The way to protect freedom of speech is to outlaw the Democratic Party and place progressives in labor camps for reeducation (like China does with their troublemakers).


Sadly, your little insurrection failed. There will be no concentration camps this time.

If you shoot at Democracy, you best not miss Wink
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2021 11:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The attack on the capitol was a big deal. Like the attack on 9/11, freedom of speech is being eroded because Americans are shocked and upset.

We are going to need to step back and reevaluate after the passion of the event recedes a bit. That isn't an excuse, it is just an acknowledgment of reality.


I don't buy the argument that someone is guilty of inciting violence, even though they said no such thing, because his enemies can connect the dots and conclude that it was an incitement. The only thing he ever actually said about the violence was that he opposed it and he said it several times. Of all the forms of speech which are protected, political speech should be the most protected because censoring it is so often a tool of fascism.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2021 11:20 pm
@Brandon9000,
It is nice to see you disagree with Oralloy about protecting political speech. Conservatives seem to be in such lockstep agreement these days.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2021 11:23 pm
@Brandon9000,
I believe your argument is valid.

The questions to be addressed in court are whether Trump's speech was directly responsible for the violence the happened at the capitol. And, whether Trump either intended, or should have predicted that his words would lead to this violence.

If it is shown in court that Trump intended the violence, then I think he should be found guilty of incitement. If it is shown that he couldn't have predicted the violence, then he should be found not guilty. It is the in-between cases that aren't clear.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 04:58 am
@oralloy,
That’s why people call you a Nazi because you are advocating Nazi practices.

Godwin himself said his law does not apply when talking to actual Nazis like you.

hightor
 
  6  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:36 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:

If it is shown in court that Trump intended the violence, then I think he should be found guilty of incitement.

He clearly intended that the lawful process of certifying the votes should be interfered with and preferably halted and that the results of the election should be reversed. There is no way for a mob to achieve this short of applying forceful tactics. The planning for this demonstration had been in the works for weeks and it was obvious that people (some armed) were going there to incite violence — Trump had plenty of time to tone down his own rhetoric and communicate his desire for a peaceful protest. Instead, caught up in the excitement, he instructed to mob to move on the Capitol.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:03 am
If a private bakery can refuse to serve a gay couple wanting a wedding cake, then a private company like Twitter can ban the President from Twitter.

If the government told Twitter it can't allow Trump on Twitter then that would open the slippery slope into censorship.

At least that is my understanding of the issue. Twitter has it rules and Trump has repeatedly violated those rules.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:12 am
@maxdancona,
If a person yells fire in a theatre and everyone runs out of screaming and in the process people are hurt and trampled, the person who yelled fire is also responsible for those actions even though the person yelling fire didn't think anything that bad would happen.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:31 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

If a person yells fire in a theatre and everyone runs out of screaming and in the process people are hurt and trampled, the person who yelled fire is also responsible for those actions even though the person yelling fire didn't think anything that bad would happen.


There is a "reasonable person" standard here.

If someone says "Hay Alliee... come here" and that causes a stampede and people are hurt. They would not be liable because no reasonable person would expect that yelling "Hey Allie" would cause a stampede.

The reason yelling "fire" in a theater is criminal is that any reasonable person should know that this is likely to cause a problem.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:35 am
On the other hand... if you use the term "Nazi" to refer to everyone who disagrees with you, then you are shitting on all of the people who actually were killed in World War 2.

I wish the Nazi comparisons would stop (whether it is for BLM or Trump supporters). It is a asinine thing that doesn't add to the discourse.

revelette3
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:38 am
@maxdancona,
Sort of a silly comparison if you forgive me for saying so. Yelling fire causes a panic and emotions to rise, that person would know that.

Trump riled up his base who have known to be violent and to belong to extremist groups. Giuliani even said, "trial by combat." Both did it in effort to stop the congress from confirming the electors for Biden which was happening at that very moment.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:43 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

Sort of a silly comparison if you forgive me for saying so. Yelling fire causes a panic and emotions to rise, that person would know that.

Trump riled up his base who have known to be violent and to belong to extremist groups. Giuliani even said, "trial by combat." Both did it in effort to stop the congress from confirming the electors for Biden which was happening at that very moment.


Now are you agreeing with me. Good.

In your last post... you seemed to be focused only on the result. In this post you say "that person would know that".

In this post, we are in complete agreement on the standard. Of course, whether Trumps words are bad enough to meet this this standard will likely be argued in court.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:49 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

On the other hand... if you use the term "Nazi" to refer to everyone who disagrees with you, then you are shitting on all of the people who actually were killed in World War 2.


Not if they’re espousing Nazi ideology and Oralloy is.

I don’t use the term lightly. I disagree with you all the time but I’ve never called you a Nazi.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 09:51 am
@izzythepush,
Ha ha. You followed me from thread to unrelated thread for weeks comparing me to Goebbels.

You use Nazi comparisons quite lightly. Oralloy is not a Nazi.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:05 am
@maxdancona,
I said you used the tactics of Goebbels, and you did.

I didn’t call you a Nazi.

You are being hysterical, I’ve not been calling you Goebbels for weeks, just days.

When I pointed out your tactics you went ballistic.

So I thought it would be funny to use Goebbels as a generalised verb just for you.

I still do think it’s funny to be honest.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:08 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


You use Nazi comparisons quite lightly. Oralloy is not a Nazi.


That’s right, nothing at all Nazi about banning a political party and locking up all it’s in ‘reeducation’ camps.

You really are an idiot.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:18 am
@izzythepush,
So Izzy, are you willing to apply this logic consistently.

If someone on the left suggests that the Republican party should be banned and that Trump supporters should be reeducated... would you say that the they are Nazis?

I think being a "Nazi" has a lot to do with whether they are on your ideological side or not. I disagree with Oralloy. I think Oralloy is acting like an idiot. I am not willing to use the "Nazi" term so lightly.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:23 am
@maxdancona,
I’m not talking about hypotheticals, I’m talking about Oralloy and what he said.

If you have any specific examples of posters on the left saying similar things then share them.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:24 am
@maxdancona,
You weren’t willing to use the term to describe the swastika wielding marchers in Charlottesville. You’re like Chamberlain.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2021 10:27 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You weren’t willing to use the term to describe the swastika wielding marchers in Charlottesville. You’re like Chamberlain.


You are lying. I have always said that anyone who self-identifies as a Nazi is a Nazi. It is simple

1) People carrying swastikas or praising Hitler are Nazis.
2) People who disagree with you on the Internet are not Nazis (unless they are carrying swastikas etc.).

Whatever definition you use for "Nazi" it should at least be consistent and not just for people you don't like.
 

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