16
   

Something the Mainstream Media Won't Tell You

 
 
farmerman
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 07:17 am
@maxdancona,
"Redlining" has done its damage through the 1970's, what weve got remaining are entire areas of " city projects" where third and fourth generation blacks (since the Reconstruction "Black Renaissances" reside in area where ownership has not been returned and "environmental racism" remains.

Lovey and Oralloy "Not being aware" is, in my mind, just another form of denial that corresponds with continuity of racist policies at local levels.

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 07:20 am
@oralloy,
I will start with the biggest whopper you have ever told (and there are hundreds of other examples).

You claim it is a fact that people who support Black Lives Matter want "Black people to be able to kill police officers".

Tell me... what data would change your mind on this ridiculous claim so that you would admit you were wrong?

(The obvious test would be to simply find people who support Black Lives Matter but don't want Police officers to be shot... you do seem to accept that).

You are a silly man Oralloy.
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 07:37 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I will start with the biggest whopper you have ever told (and there are hundreds of other examples).

Progressives dislike reality, but no. The truth is not a lie.


maxdancona wrote:
You claim it is a fact that people who support Black Lives Matter want "Black people to be able to kill police officers".

If someone supports a group that openly has those goals, then they support those goals.


maxdancona wrote:
Tell me... what data would change your mind on this ridiculous claim so that you would admit you were wrong?

Well, if you could establish that Black Lives Matter was not formed to protest the deaths of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Eric Garner, but instead took the position that there was no wrongdoing in any of those cases, I'd have to take a second look.


maxdancona wrote:
The obvious test would be to simply find people who support Black Lives Matter but don't want Police officers to be shot...

"People making contradictory claims" is not evidence of much other than the fact that those people are deeply confused.


maxdancona wrote:
You are a silly man Oralloy.

Only to people who think facts and reality are silly.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 07:48 am
@oralloy,
You seem to be having trouble following along here Oralloy

1. You agree that any time you claim a fact, it has to be testable.
2. You agree that you should be able to provide a set of data that would disprove your claim and cause you to change your mind.
3. Then you fail to do so.

You are expressing an opinion. Until you describe a way to test your claim; i.e. a set of measurable data that will disprove your statement, it is not a fact.

This is your continual problem.
oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:00 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
You seem to be having trouble following along here Oralloy

That's one thing that I never have trouble with.


maxdancona wrote:
1. You agree that any time you claim a fact, it has to be testable.
2. You agree that you should be able to provide a set of data that would disprove your claim and cause you to change your mind.
3. Then you fail to do so.

I did not fail to do so.


maxdancona wrote:
You are expressing an opinion.

Your dislike for reality does not make facts opinions.


maxdancona wrote:
Until you describe a way to test your claim; i.e. a set of measurable data that will disprove your statement, it is not a fact.

I have already done this.


maxdancona wrote:
This is your continual problem.

My problem is that progressives actively reject reality. It makes it difficult to have productive conversations with them.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:07 am
@oralloy,
If we can't agree on a set of objective facts, than intelligent discussion is simply impossible. I have clearly defined the process I use to arrive at objective facts... questioning my own beliefs is part of this process. I have committed to making sure that anytime I claim something to be factual, I can provide an objective way to test (and a set of data that would mean that my claim is wrong).

It feels to me that your basic argument is "I am very smart, so what I say is true." I simply can't argue with that. It is like you live in a different reality.

I am trying to engage with you in a serious way (which is more than most people can say) .

Go back and read your own posts... and think about how they appear to other people. Most of your posts are you stating "I am right because I am right". People can't engage with you in a rational way even when we want to.

snood
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:18 am
@farmerman,
I remember a pretty interesting conversation a couple years back with an older white guy with whom I’ve been friendly for years.

It ended up being sort of eye-opening for both of us.

I was trying to explain institutional racism to him; I saw his questions as genuine. I used scenarios that I thought illustrated some of how racism is perpetuated. I said that when an apartment manager or an employer or real estate salesperson was more likely to welcome business from people who they perceived to be “like them”, that’s one way.

When he still seemed unclear, I made it more personal. I said if he had a room for rent and two people applied for it who were identical in income, both friendly and clean cut and educated, but one was black and one was white...

He interrupted me. He said he’d rent to the white guy, “obviously”.

I was aghast, but tried to be measured. Why “obviously”? He said that he saw it as just helping out his own. He thought of it as just the harmless, natural course of things. But what happens, I said, if the black guy finds that EVERY white landlord and employer and merchant in town thinks like that?

My friend seemed struck by this. He said when I put it that way, he could see it from the black guy’s perspective - and he said he hadn’t done that before.

It was an interesting conversation. I actually think we both learned something.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:28 am
@snood,
I learned about institutional racism from raising my kids. I am a pale White guy. My sons are not White.

This is something that I always understood intellectually. It is something different when you have a 14 year old who is dealing with the fact that he is being followed by store employees and his White friends are not.

How do you help a 14 year hold process the fact that society treats him differently? These hundreds of little examples of how society judges you based on the color of your skin add up.

izzythepush
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:33 am
@snood,
Apart from the real hard core most people don’t consider themselves racist, even though so many are.

I remember one poster trying to claim that racism and prejudice were two separate things, and that only criminal acts are racist, everything else is just prejudice which is entirely different.

I know, he was a bloody idiot.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 08:38 am
@maxdancona,
I don’t know if you were asking rhetorically, but what I try to do is share personal anecdotes that show how I learned to react - or not react in my own best interest. Hopefully, I can help them to not internalize the feelings of ‘otherness’ or inferiority that are an inevitable effect of being super scrutinized because of the color of your skin.
Real Music
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 09:02 am
@snood,
Quote:
How many politicians do you know of that have made mock-ups of Time Magazine covers to make it appear they were Person of the Year

I only know one.

That incident was funny, sad, and disturbing all at the same time.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  4  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 11:10 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

I don’t know if you were asking rhetorically, but what I try to do is share personal anecdotes that show how I learned to react - or not react in my own best interest. Hopefully, I can help them to not internalize the feelings of ‘otherness’ or inferiority that are an inevitable effect of being super scrutinized because of the color of your skin.

Do you do that by telling them they are victims first and people second? I don't think you are helping anyone. The vast majority of people, no matter what color, do not have the power to keep others down. Therefore any scrutiny from them means about 0.
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 12:43 pm
@coldjoint,
Who asked you?
coldjoint
 
  4  
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2020 01:56 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Who asked you?

No one. That is what is nice about a forum.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2020 03:30 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If we can't agree on a set of objective facts, then intelligent discussion is simply impossible.

Yes. And since you refuse to accept reality, there is no basis for conversation.

But your "running away" is much preferable to the childish name-calling that some others engage in. I commend you for not engaging in such name-calling.


maxdancona wrote:
It feels to me that your basic argument is "I am very smart, so what I say is true." I simply can't argue with that. It is like you live in a different reality.

That's not my basic argument. I hardly ever address my intellect except when setting the record straight after people lie about me.


maxdancona wrote:
I am trying to engage with you in a serious way (which is more than most people can say).

I commend you again for the lack of childish name-calling. It is indeed a breath of fresh air.


maxdancona wrote:
Go back and read your own posts... and think about how they appear to other people. Most of your posts are you stating "I am right because I am right".

Well, yes. That is a reasonable response to someone who denies reality.


maxdancona wrote:
People can't engage with you in a rational way even when we want to.

Sure they can. Rational discussion merely requires the acceptance of reality.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2020 07:24 am
I can’t post links, but I’ve just been reading an article on the BBC about how this may well kick off a potential arms race in the Middle East.

Lockheed Martin’s F35 Lightning II has been described as the most advanced fighter jet on the planet. Now that the peace deal has been signed the UAE should have no problems getting hold of it. Having the jet is seen as a prestige issue and they’ve been trying get hold of it for six years.

Trump has already submitted plans to Congress for 50 of the fighters to be sold to the UAE for $10.48 billion.

Israel is said to oppose the move.

Just for Brandon.

I can’t post links, but my source is the BBC news website. Click on news, then world news, then Middle East. The articles headline is Could Arab-Israeli peace deals spark an arms race?

Or you could type the headline and bbc news into google.

If you can’t do that maybe you can ask someone to help you.

oralloy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2020 08:18 pm
@izzythepush,
Here's a link:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54737029

Personally I don't see how an arms race when both sides of the arms race are the good guys is necessarily a bad thing.

Maybe an intra-NATO arms race could finally get European nations to boost their military spending.

We could offset a sale to the UAE by giving Israel a huge amount of weapons that would enhance their ability to pummel Iran. And really, lets start giving A-10 Warthogs to Israel. That would dramatically enhance Israel's ability to resist a future ground invasion.
0 Replies
 
 

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