God's existence and existence of virtual particles

@Alan Masterman,

Dear readers and fellow posters here, it is now Monday in my location, August 31, 2020.

Poster Alan Masterman told me to reply to his last post by Monday, but I did it* already on Sat 29 Aug, 2020 02:59 pm (my local time).

Anyway, I will now expose another lie this one a quotation from Russell, the perennial liar when it comes to God exists or not.

According to Russell as quoted by Alan Masterman:

"If anything can exist without being created, it might as well be the universe; we don't need to invoke any gods [Bertrand Russell]."

Now, I say Russell is a liar, why, because he always hookwinks simple folks with semantic tricks which simple follks like one Alan takes so seriously, i.e. literally.

Russell knew all the time as it is common knowledge that the universe is made of components that have beginning in time: therefore not uncreated but created or caused to come into existence.

Examples of components of the universe: babies and roses in the neighborhood, the nose on our face, and of course virtual particles talked about by physical cosmologists, they all have beginning, therefore they were caused by ultimately God to come into existence.

_____________________

Quote:

*

From Susmariosep Sat 29 Aug, 2020 02:59 pm (Saturday)

@Alan Masterman,
Dear my opponents here and everyone who deny God exists, I never state that God created everything out of nothing, that is a lie from the part of my opponents here and all folks who deny God exists.

God created everything with Himself as material out of which He caused everything that is not Himself to come to existence.

There, now let us read from my opponents here on what more lies they will peddle.

_____________

(Quote from my interactive party here.)

@Susmariosep,
If anything can exist without being created, it might as well be the universe; we don't need to invoke any gods [Bertrand Russell]. Susmariosep, the first and most necessary step in your argument is to prove that God exists, and secondly, to offer an account of how a metaphysical God might create a physical universe out of nothing, and thirdly (and MOST importantly), a knockdown proof that this is really the way it all happened. By Monday, please.

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0 Replies

Time for a reset on my thread, and here is the OP again (quote below), so please be guided accordingly.

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The most crucially important word in the OP is the word existence.

Every homo sapiens must know what is existence if nothing else in life, in order to live as a homo sapiens, scil., a living thing with knowledge or wisdom.

Why so?

Because if you don't know what is existence, then you can be thinking and talking out of turn, i.e. without reference to reality altogether.

Am I talking out of turn here now?

No, I am not talking out of turn, because I know what existence is.

Here is how I know what existence is: by and from and through and of and on and in my conscious experience of existence.

Here are some instances of conscious experience of existence, you everyone can try it and know what existence is:

Touch your nose, is it still on your face, if so, there the nose exists.

Look outside the window, whatever you see outside the window, it is all existence. You get my drift now?

Feel thirsty? That is another instance of existence, namely the existence of thirst.

In brief, existence is anything at all which man consciously experiences, even the thought inside your mind that thought exists in your mind, and your mind exists, and everything inside as thoughts - inside your mind, they are all instances of existence - inside your mind.

And there are instances of existence that are outside your mind, like what? Like babies and roses in the neighborhood.

So, summing up, existence is anything at all even just inside your mind but in particular outside your mind that man, you and I and he she it see, consciously experience.

If you still don't know what is existence, then I dare say, You are existing out of turn.

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What about God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning?

Yes! the CONCEPT exists in your mind, in our mind, and we will go forth into the world outside and independent of our mind to seek His presence, in the evidence of His existence everywhere, like in the nose on our face - some entity of utmost power, to wit, God, ultimately puts it there for a purpose, for you to breathe air into your lungs.
.

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Quote:

Fri 21 Aug, 2020 03:11 pm
God's existence and existence of virtual particles

God's
existence
and
existence
of
virtual particles

My question is the following:

Are God and virtual particles compatible?

From my own personal self thinking on facts, truths, logic, and the best ideas in the history of mankind, I say YES, they are compatible, because God creates them, that's why.

What do you guys here say?
.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Here is something I like to share with all you guys.

Do you wonder what is the experience of death?

You must have heard and read about people having returned from death, but on more attentive listening or reading, it is not the factual status of death that they experienced, but what is called near death experience.

On this status of near death, the subject recalls afterwards he seemed to have witnessed himself lying on a stretcher or on the operating table, while doctors and nurses and technicians and the anesthesiologist doctor all gave up already, with struggling to bring back your heart to resume beating.

I tell you, the closest experience of death is like when you are into deep long hours of dreamless sleep, and you wake up without any memory of any dream, and also realize that you were for some long long hours in complete unconsciousness.

If you do not wake up at all, then you have died the death, even though your physiology is still all operating.

Suppose you are in that kind of a status and some stray bullet bursts into your brain, then you will never wake up ever again - that is factual death and hence for a human a homo sapiens, there is no longer ever any return to consciousness.

So, no return ever to consciousness is equivalent to factual death, which in turn is equivalent to extinction of existence with a human person, and your earthy remains will now go into the process of decay, so that from dust thou came unto dust thou return.

Coming back to the deep long hours of dreamless sleep, that is in hindsight, the experience of transient death, when you do normally wake up notwithstanding the long long hours of deep dreamless sleep.

One question: Where is or was your consciousness when you were in deep long hours of dreamless sleep?

1 Reply

@Teufel,

Dear Teufel, you and your family seem to aspire to exist as robots.

Quote:

https://able2know.org/user/teufel/

Teufell Member since July 23, 2020
Teufel
My Profile
Teufel
Send Message

Answered Questions: 1
Posts: 149
Location: European mainland
Occupation: semi-retired

Intellectual, academic yet also entirely logical and pragmatic ... That defines my Dr wife, our two Dr children and myself.

My life has been extremely varied. My wife and I have lived and worked over most of the planet, (yet always avoided the US ... No thank you very much).

Ergo I have a wide base of actual knowledge; Therefore I'm long on facts, ultra short on and with facile opinions.

As a PSA which maybe worth noting for some: I do not return to threads and read what people have opined regarding the facts I have posted. This is for two reasons:

1) I deal in facts, if someone disagrees they are blatantly idiotic. If someone agrees with facts, what need do I have to see that?

2) This is extremely difficult for people to understand and in fact, they actually cannot in my experience .... Myself I am clinically defined as having no recognisable emotional register. No I am not autistic, I am obviously 100% functional.

However, sans of emotions as I am then I have no fear, no need for people,society, validation and all the things which 'people need'.

'Have a nice day' as they say in the land of the oppressed, poor and generally screwed over.

Following

Quote:

0 Replies

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

God's existence and existence of virtual particles

God's
existence
and
existence
of
virtual particles

My question is the following:

Are God and virtual particles compatible?

From my own personal self thinking on facts, truths, logic, and the best ideas in the history of mankind, I say YES, they are compatible, because God creates them, that's why.

What do you guys here say?
.

As a hypothetical, to beg the question, sure.

0 Replies

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

One question: Where is or was your consciousness when you were in deep long hours of dreamless sleep?

It was asleep.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Dear Infra:

That is an example from your part of circular self-talking, it is indication of lack of honest intelligent productive thinking - nothing of any new thought there.

Try again.

ANNEX

Quote:

From Susmariosep:

Here is something I like to share with all you guys.

Do you wonder what is the experience of death?

You must have heard and read about people having returned from death, but on more attentive listening or reading, it is not the factual status of death that they experienced, but what is called near death experience.

On this status of near death, the subject recalls afterwards he seemed to have witnessed himself lying on a stretcher or on the operating table, while doctors and nurses and technicians and the anesthesiologist doctor all gave up already, with struggling to bring back your heart to resume beating.

I tell you, the closest experience of death is like when you are into deep long hours of dreamless sleep, and you wake up without any memory of any dream, and also realize that you were for some long long hours in complete unconsciousness.

If you do not wake up at all, then you have died the death, even though your physiology is still all operating.

Suppose you are in that kind of a status and some stray bullet bursts into your brain, then you will never wake up ever again - that is factual death and hence for a human a homo sapiens, there is no longer ever any return to consciousness.

So, no return ever to consciousness is equivalent to factual death, which in turn is equivalent to extinction of existence with a human person, and your earthy remains will now go into the process of decay, so that from dust thou came unto dust thou return.

Coming back to the deep long hours of dreamless sleep, that is in hindsight, the experience of transient death, when you do normally wake up notwithstanding the long long hours of deep dreamless sleep.

One question: Where is or was your consciousness when you were in deep long hours of dreamless sleep?

Quote:

Susmariosep wrote:

One question: Where is or was your consciousness when you were in deep long hours of dreamless sleep?

Infra answered:

It was asleep.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Thanks a lot dear readers who visit my thread. (See Annex 1.)
.

Today I like to share with you this thought more fully, namely, the investigation into existence.

Have you ever asked yourselves this question: What is existence?

This thread is about:
"God's existence and existence of virtual particles." (See Annex 2.)

So, what is existence?

First before anything else, we humans are the only entities that we know of asking this question, and so I ask you, have you anyone ever wondered why at all, only humans can and do ask this question, What is existence?

The reason is because so far as we know, we are the only entities who are self-aware that we are homo sapiens*, i.e. our own kind have thought about it, and come to the conclusion that it is because of all living things we only are the kind that has intelligence.

And intelligence drives us to ask questions, what about fellow humans who do not ask themselves the question, What is existence?

They are still homo sapiens, but they conduct themselves like cattle, doing nothing but chewing grass: so that if humans are cannibals, fellow humans can slaughter them for food, and they would not notice it either, just as cattle get slaughtered without knowing it, scil. being slaughtered. (See Annex 3.)

Long story short: What is existence?

Existence is whatever we consciously experience with our senses of sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste, and above all our super sense of consciousness itself.

And whatever else we can conclude on with reasoning from what we know to exist from our conscious experience through our senses of sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste, and our super sense of consciousness.

There, think about that.

.
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Annex 1

Forums: Philosophy, God, Existence, Virtual Particles
Question by Susmariosep
Posted 08/21/20 3:11 PM
Replies: 26
Views: 634
Last Post by Susmariosep
on 09/03/20 4:47 PM

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.

Annex 2

God's existence and existence of virtual particles
Forums: Philosophy, God, Existence, Virtual Particles
Fri 21 Aug, 2020 03:11 pm
God's existence and existence of virtual particles

God's
existence
and
existence
of
virtual particles

My question is the following:

Are God and virtual particles compatible?

From my own personal self thinking on facts, truths, logic, and the best ideas in the history of mankind, I say YES, they are compatible, because God creates them, that's why.

What do you guys here say?

.
.

Annex 3

Slaughter: 'They Die Piece by Piece'
After they are unloaded, cows are forced through a chute and shot in the head with a captive-bolt gun meant to stun them. But because the lines move so quickly and many workers are poorly trained, the technique often fails to render the animals insensible to pain. Aug 17, 2020
Cow Transport and Slaughter | PETA
https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/cows/cow-transport-slaughter/

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.
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*Humans received the species name, Homo sapiens, meaning "wise man," in 1758. But given our short-sighted behavior, that name needs to be changed, one writer proposes.
(Image: © © Dannyphoto80 | Dreamstime.com)
For about 250 years, our species has been known as Homo sapiens, a scientific name in Latin that means "wise man."
Given the havoc humans are wreaking on natural systems, putting ourselves and so many other living things in peril, we don't deserve this name, contends Julian Cribb, an Australian science writer and book author. In a letter published in the Aug. 18 issue of the journal Nature, Cribb makes a proposal.
https://www.livescience.com/15615-homo-sapiens-change.html
.
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0 Replies

@mark noble,

Dear visitors to my thread:

Here is an example of a poster Teufel (Devil) that is not daring i.e. courageous to exchange ideas with me, because he might expose himself to be a plain poorly designed robot - with some crude artificial intelligence. (See Annex 1.)

But in his profile he already declares himself to be not interested at all with exchange of ideas, because he only cares to talk but not to listen, much less to examine his own thinking, to correct it if necessary. (See Annex 2.)

Some people might point out that I am into ad hominem, but they are mistaken: because the poster I am keen to exchange ideas with, he wants to be not a homo sapiens, but a robot - and his wife and children also. (See Annex 2.)

.
.

Annex 1

Quote:

God's existence and existence of virtual particles
Forums: Philosophy, God, Existence, Virtual Particles
Susmariosep Fri 21 Aug, 2020 03:11 pm

- - - - - - - - -

God's existence and existence of virtual particles

God's
existence
and
existence
of
virtual particles

My question is the following:

Are God and virtual particles compatible?

From my own personal self thinking on facts, truths, logic, and the best ideas in the history of mankind, I say YES, they are compatible, because God creates them, that's why.

What do you guys here say?
.

Quote:
Teufel

Fri 21 Aug, 2020 04:21 pm
@Susmariosep,
Considering you have had 15+ views and no replies I would feel that they don't understand the question ... or care

My (entirely rhetorical) question is; why do you ask?

It seems to me that people's 'God' if they choose to identify one, is entirely their own. It is a wholly personal construct of a vague concept which bears no scrutiny.

Further to me in the field of God and organised religions, it appears that anything can be made up to 'fill a hole'. This sort of thing goes ..... God made the world, God made everything so he/she/it created virtual particles ... QED.

Douglas Adams covered much of this sort of foofaraw in far more eloquent tones than myself ...... maybe read some of his work if you haven't previously. If nothing else you should get a smile from it.

Quote:

Fri 21 Aug, 2020 06:10 pm
@Teufel,
Dear Teufel, please just pick one point in your post reproduced below that you want me to interact with you on, okay?

Teufel (Devil) has never returned to dialog with me.

.

Annex 2

Quote:

(See his aspiration to be a robot, in his 2) self-declaration below.)
Teufel Member since July 23, 2020
My Profile
- - - - - - - - -

Intellectual, academic yet also entirely logical and pragmatic ... That defines my Dr wife, our two Dr children and myself.

My life has been extremely varied. My wife and I have lived and worked over most of the planet, (yet always avoided the US ... No thank you very much).

Ergo I have a wide base of actual knowledge; Therefore I'm long on facts, ultra short on and with facile opinions.

As a PSA which maybe worth noting for some: I do not return to threads and read what people have opined regarding the facts I have posted. This is for two reasons:

1) I deal in facts, if someone disagrees they are blatantly idiotic. If someone agrees with facts, what need do I have to see that?

2) This is extremely difficult for people to understand and in fact, they actually cannot in my experience .... Myself I am clinically defined as having no recognisable emotional register. No I am not autistic, I am obviously 100% functional (as a robot).
However, sans of emotions as I am then I have no fear, no need for people,society, validation and all the things which 'people need'.

'Have a nice day' as they say in the land of the oppressed, poor and generally screwed over.

.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Should be a bumper thanksgiving this year.

0 Replies

@Susmariosep,

Define god first of all and second the big bang does not say anything about what had happen or did not happen before the big bang or whether our universe is just a bubble or flux of some unknown type in some larger framework of reality.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

Suggest picking up the following book.

Quote:

A Universe from Nothing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing
AUFN LawrenceKrauss.jpeg
Softcover edition
Author Lawrence M. Krauss
Country United States
Language English
Subject Physics
Cosmology
Publisher Free Press
Publication date January 10, 2012
Media type Print (Hardcover and Softcover), e-book
Pages 224 pp
ISBN 978-1-4516-2445-8
Dewey Decimal 523.1/8
LC Class QB981 .K773 2012
Preceded by Quantum Man
Followed by The Greatest Story Ever Told—

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM says:

1. Define god first of all and

2. second the big bang does not say anything about what had happen or did not happen before the big bang or whether our universe is just a bubble or flux of some unknown type in some larger framework of reality.

To 1. God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

To 2. Dear Bill, reduce your words in No. 2 to just 20 words or less, too much words from you is indicative of a non-precision mind.
.

There.

.

Take notice, dear readers and fellow posters here, the man will take to flight.

Quote:

BillRM 5 Sep, 2020 11:17 pm

@Susmariosep,
Define god first of all and second the big bang does not say anything about what had happen or did not happen before the big bang or whether our universe is just a bubble or flux of some unknown type in some larger framework of reality.

0 Replies

@Susmariosep,

It is your question that is circular, not the answer.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Dear Infra, I am not dealing with you, later when Bill does not show up in the next 24 hours, you and I can talk about your concern, okay?

Quote:

Susmariosep Sun 6 Sep, 2020 02:04 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM says:

1. Define god first of all and

2. second the big bang does not say anything about what had happen or did not happen before the big bang or whether our universe is just a bubble or flux of some unknown type in some larger framework of reality.

To 1. God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

To 2. Dear Bill, reduce your words in No. 2 to just 20 words or less, too much words from you is indicative of a non-precision mind.
.

There.

.

Take notice, dear readers and fellow posters here, the man will take to flight.

Quote:

InfraBlue Sun 6 Sep, 2020 08:18 pm
@Susmariosep,
It is your question that is circular, not the answer.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

What I love in the logic of a all knowing and powerful god that is needed to created the universe then if you need a creator for the universe where oh where is the creator who is more complex then the whole universe come from?

If he can come out of nowhere then there is no logic reason to need such a god as the simpler universe can come out of nothing also without the needed step of having a god. Hell by the demand to need a universe creator you are facing having a never ending serous of ever more powerful gods.

Once more look up Occam razor.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Dear Bill, what I observe with you is that you have nothing of any indication that you are doing honest intelligent productive thinking, at all.

You appear to have read lots of worthless materials, but you deliver them just the same, still the fact is that you don't really know what they are all about.

Take Occam's razor, let you explain what it is in less than 30 words - if you can't do it, in less than 30 words, then that is proof you don't know at all what is the meaning of Occam's razor.

Quote:

@Susmariosep,
What I love in the logic of a all knowing and powerful god that is needed to created the universe then if you need a creator for the universe where oh where is the creator who is more complex then the whole universe come from?

If he can come out of nowhere then there is no logic reason to need such a god as the simpler universe can come out of nothing also without the needed step of having a god. Hell by the demand to need a universe creator you are facing having a never ending serous of ever more powerful gods.

Once more look up Occam razor.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

In my opinion, god can be seen or their influence seen in all things, why would anything exist without their influence? So to answer your question, if I understand it, I believe that god would supersede all things material, particle, energy or otherwise.

Does god have to be compatible? It depends on what you believe god is and what they did. If they are the infinite creator, then they have a say in all things, still if they can create anything, that would include things they are incompatible with.

So the answer comes down to what you in particular believe, I'm a big proponent of subjective reality.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Quote:

You appear to have read lots of worthless materials, but you deliver them just the same, still the fact is that you don't really know what they are all about.

So you do not care to such books as by Thomas Paine The Ago of Reason? The first book that let me know that I was not alone in thinking the Christian religion is on it face is nonsense?

As far as getting my materials from books at the age of roughly 12 I was rejecting the idea of a god all repeat all by myself from logic using only the family King James Bible stories as the source of my rejection.

Next long before I become aware of the formal Occam Razor statement I was always applying it to the world around me in that you try not to introduce any more elements then you need to explain something such as mankind for example.

The concept of an all powerful god explain nothing at all anymore then the god Zeus is a useful mean to explain lightening bolts from the sky.

It is as useful as waving you hands in the air making up gods to try to explain the world.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Dear Bill, let us work together to come to a mutually agreed on concept of what is Occam's razor.

From my part, it has to do with explanation, namely:
"Between a simple explanation and a complex explanation, choose the simple explanation. (12 words*)

Please present your concept of Occam's razor, in the least number of words you can manage with, okay?

Quote:

From Bill

[ . . . . ]

Next long before I become aware of the formal Occam Razor statement I was always applying it to the world around me in that you try not to introduce any more elements then you need to explain something such as mankind for example.

[ . . . . ]

*Cf. Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate.

0 Replies

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