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Facebook VP on ad boycott: We have 'no incentive' to allow hate speech.

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:04 am
@maxdancona,
He has done something incredible that will have a significant impact on the lives of poor children. Standing up to Boris Johnson required a great deal of courage.

You want to compare apples and oranges. The racism over here has never been as bad as that in America which is why Doctor Who needed to use Rosa Parks as a shocking example of racism. Over here it wouldn’t have had anywhere near the same impact.

Even though black people have been here since Roman times they’ve been a small minority until the 1950s when lots of immigrants from the West Indies and India came over here.

Recent immigrants tend to keep their heads down, it’s not until second generation that they start to rail against the status quo. Not a lot of second generation black people in Britain when Rosa Parks made her protest.

What’s all this England **** as well? The country I live in is the UK. I don’t go on about Massachusetts when talking to you, I talk about the USA because I’m not pig ignorant like you.

If you knew anything about race relations over here you’d be aware of how things have changed, how the contribution of people of colour are being recognised.

When I was at school we learned all about Florence Nightingale. Now kids learn about Mary Seacole too.

With all the talk of pulling down statues there’s a movement to put up one to Jack Leslie, but you wouldn’t know about that. You’d rather pontificate from a position of ignorance.

No mention of McCartyism either. How does that fit in with free speech?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:35 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
. The racism over here has never been as bad as that in America


Are you actually making this claim?

You might want to listen to what Black people are saying about that. This denial from British white people is typical of British White Paternalism.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:39 am
@maxdancona,
'The greatest trick racism ever pulled was convincing England it doesn't exist'
How Britain failed to deal with systemic racism


Quote:
London (CNN) — Racism in Britain may attract less global attention than in the United States, but it is no less present -- and Black Britons say it is past time for the country to face up to its colonial history and act to stamp out racial inequalities.
The police killing of George Floyd, an unarmed Black man, in Minneapolis sparked global protests over police brutality and racial inequality despite an ongoing pandemic which has had a disproportionate impact on ethnic minorities in the UK and US.
In Britain, where public trust in institutions has been eroded by examples of systemic racism over decades, thousands have turned out to join Black Lives Matter protests despite pleas from the government for people to stay home.


More at CNN link
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:41 am
@maxdancona,
I never denied racism exists over here. It’s a lot worse in America.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:42 am
@McGentrix,
Are you saying racism in Britain is the same or worse than that in America?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:44 am
@maxdancona,
Still nothing on McCarthyism.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:45 am
@izzythepush,
White Supremacy in the United States comes directly from English culture. Three hundred years ago, the White people in America were predominantly British. We spoke English. We worshiped in British Churches. We used the British flag.

We also had British ideas of racial superiority, expansion and conquest. It was England that set up our system of slavery and England started the genocide of Native Americans. Sure the descendants of British colonizers continued these things after we gained our independence, but that is because we continued the legacy of British colonizing culture.

England avoided having the nastiness of Black slaves in England. They encouraged slavery. They financed slavery. They profited greatly from slavery, but they shunted the ugliness onto the colonies. In my opinion that is worse.... being the source of evil that you are too cowardly to let in your own back yard. We are a former colony still cleaning up the mess started by White Supremacist British imperialism.

Our social justice movements in the past 200 years have largely been spent undoing our British colonial heritage. Our far right wing still uses "English only" as a slogan of cultural superiority.

McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:50 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Are you saying racism in Britain is the same or worse than that in America?


I am saying it is just as bad. Not worse, not better.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:52 am
@maxdancona,
What the **** has that got to do with any of it.

We’re talking about the here and now.

America is more racist in the 21st Century than the UK.

Maybe that is because we shipped off the very worst elements to America.

There is a time when you have to take responsibility for your own actions. You declared independence in 1776. Act like it.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:53 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
America is more racist in the 21st Century than the UK.


You say this because you are a White person in the UK.

You should listen to what Black people are saying on this topic.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 09:59 am
@McGentrix,
You have a legacy of lynchings, slavery and the KKK.

We had the colour bar.

It’s not the same at all.

Now some have tried to underplay the full extent of racism over here, but even so,it’s no way near as bad as America.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:02 am
It is not just racial justice where the United Kingdom followed in the footsteps of America.

It was Stonewall in the United States that galvanized the movement for LGBT rights in England. England had plenty of its share of repression; most famous the horrible treatment of Alan Turing who should have been treated as a war hero.

There was secret societies with rhyming slang, and intellectual discussions, but England went nicely nicely until the United States had Stonewall. Again, it was people in the United States that had to say 'enough' and push back against social repression in a way that in England would be too impolite.

After Stonewall, the LGBT movement in the United Kingdom again followed in our footsteps.

It is an American ideal, speaking out against injustice even when it breaks social convention. We are willing to offend and willing to break social order when justice demands it.

It all starts with Free Speech. I mean True Free Speech meaning that we have the intrinsic right to offend the sensibilities of good people. That is why we lead the world in social justice movements (and why English footballers have the American slogan "BlackLivesMatter" on the backs of their shirts).
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:04 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You have a legacy of lynchings, slavery and the KKK.

We had the colour bar.

It’s not the same at all.

Now some have tried to underplay the full extent of racism over here, but even so,it’s no way near as bad as America.


What the **** has that got to do with any of it.

We’re talking about the here and now.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:16 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

You have a legacy of lynchings, slavery and the KKK.

We had the colour bar.

It’s not the same at all.

Now some have tried to underplay the full extent of racism over here, but even so,it’s no way near as bad as America.


What the **** has that got to do with any of it.

We’re talking about the here and now.


They are very relevant. Slavery and Lynching were started by the English before the founding of the United States. The KKK was founded specifically to "defend" and continue British colonial culture. They were against Catholics and non English-speaking immigrants.

These are English Institutions that were started by citizens of the UK and their descendants. They were based on British White Supremacy and were instituted specifically to defend British culture.


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:16 am
@McGentrix,
We are talking about the here and now. We’re talking about where we started from, not about trying to pass the buck.

Have you anything to say about free speech and McCarthyism?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:37 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Have you anything to say about free speech and McCarthyism?

McCarthyism is the predecessor of today's "cancel culture". The Left uses it just like McCarthy did to target and shame people, costing them their jobs and the prospects of a new one.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
It’s because of the greater injustice to start with. Look at healthcare. Look atMcCarthyism.

You can’t have it both ways.

As Trotsky pointed out you can’t strike a match on butter. The revolution happened in Russia for a reason. It’s only when things get so bad that people act. So either conditions are worse in America resulting in direct action or they’re not.

It wasn’t civil rights leaders who brought about the current protests it was video footage of American police officers killing George Floyd.

You can’t have it both ways. And you can’t stick to an argument either.

If you want to start a thread on leading American civil rights activists then go ahead.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:47 am
I don't know why Izzy keep bringing up McCarthyism. It is the exact opposite of Free Speech. But, I will respond.

McCarthyism was an attempt to stamp out an idea that many Americans found offensive or dangerous. This was during the Cold War and many people in Western countries felt that communism was a form of slavery, and that allowing people in the United States to promote communist ideas was a threat to freedom.

This is not unlike the way many Americans feel today about fascism or homophobia. These are considered to be dangerous ideas that are a threat to freedom.

If you want to say that promoting communism is acceptable speech, but promoting fascism should be illegal... you are treading an awfully fine line. Talk to someone who grew up under a communist regime if you want to make this argument. What you are really doing is making an arbitrary decision based on political biases and then using the power of government to enforce them.

What McCarthy did was use the power of the government to stamp out ideas he considered dangerous by punishing people who were associated with them.

This is the opposite of Free Speech, and the exact thing that I am opposing on this thread.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 10:59 am
@maxdancona,
Fascism is a lot more than an idea. We’ve got Fascists marching on the streets causing civil disorder.

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2020 11:01 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Fascism is a lot more than an idea. We’ve got Fascists marching on the streets causing civil disorder.


So if instead of stamping out Communism, McCarthyism was about stamping out "Fascism"...

... would you support it?
 

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