6
   

Washington D.C. and wars...

 
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 06:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I triple dog agree with his righteous opinion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 06:52 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
I expressly recognize Germany's responsibility to condemn Israel's current war crimes against the Palestinian people.
Only condemn Israel's "war crimes" - why this special responsibility?

Glennn wrote:
I wonder if Germany views the calling out of Israel for their ongoing war crimes against women and children in Gaza is considered anti semitic.
You wonder because you've read about that or is it just one of your hypothetical questions? (Besides, there is no "Germany view" - there are always different opinions and points of view on each and every subject here.)

Glennn
 
  -3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 07:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
You wonder because you've read about that or is it just one of your hypothetical questions?

No. I'm pointing out that in order to keep Israel happy, Germany demands their citizens maintain an immoral loyalty to Israel even in the face of their genocidal activity.

The question is whether or not Germany views criticism of Israel's current war crimes against women and children as anti semitic.

And the answer is: Obviously. But what kind of loyalty causes one to support war criminals and condemn their victims instead?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 07:38 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

No. I'm pointing out that in order to keep Israel happy, Germany demands their citizens maintain an immoral loyalty to Israel even in the face of their genocidal activity.
Well, our Nazi history wasn't so cruel because we later wanted to make Israel happy.
Besides that "Germany" doesn't demand its citizens (with or without German nationality) to "maintain an immoral loyalty to Israel" (actual no loyalty at all).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 07:39 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
The question is whether or not Germany views criticism of Israel's current war crimes against women and children as anti semitic.

And the answer is: Obviously.
Since it's obvious for you, you certainly can provide examples.



Add.:
The prohibition of discrimination on the grounds of race (Art. 3 para. 3 sentence 1 GG) is the legal starting point for combating anti-Semitism.
Translated into current anti-discrimination law, anti-Semitism means "racism against Jews".

In view of the historical context of its origins, there is constitutional dogmatic agreement on this, as Article 3 (3) of the Basic Law was drafted precisely as a reaction to the complete disenfranchisement of Jewish life in Germany and the Holocaust.
This interpretation is also in line with the definition of racial discrimination under international law in Art. 1 para. 1 ICERD and the EU Anti-Racism Directive 2000/43/EC.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 07:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Does Germany prohibit anti semitic language?
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 07:56 am
@Glennn,
Um, any language can be used to frame anti-semitic thoughts. How does a country "prohibit" language?
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 08:06 am
@hightor,
Kinda like this:

A DJ wearing a T-shirt with the word “Palestine” in Arabic had his set cut off. A planned photo exhibit in southwestern Germany was canceled as a result of social media posts by its curator, including one describing “genocide” in Gaza. After Russian American journalist Masha Gessen wrote in the New Yoker that Gaza was like a Jewish ghetto under Nazi occupation, a German foundation scaled down the event where they were to receive a prize for political thought. The Frankfurt Book Fair postponed indefinitely its prize ceremony for Palestinian author Adania Shibli.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/germany-antisemitism-israel-gaza-arts-censorship/
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

A man is anti semitic for wearing a tee shirt that has the word "Palestine" on it. What's that about?
hightor
 
  2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 08:15 am
@Glennn,
I still don't see that "language", even Arabic, is prohibited. The tee-shirt may have violated the rules of decorum, the article doesn't say.

It does say this:
Quote:
Germany recorded a 320 percent increase in the number of domestic antisemitic incidents between Oct. 7 and Nov. 9, compared with the same period last year.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 08:26 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Germany recorded a 320 percent increase in the number of domestic antisemitic incidents between Oct. 7 and Nov. 9, compared with the same period last year.

Yeah, that's what happens when Israel commits war crimes against mostly women and children, burying them alive in rubble. People will speak up, either in favor of, or against, those war crimes. When it comes to Israel, some people simply refuse to call the war crimes what they are.

As I recall, you would not declare the murder of women and children in Gaza a war crime against Israel. What would Israel have to do to innocent human beings before you'd be willing to call their war crime against Gazans a war crime?
Quote:
I still don't see that "language", even Arabic, is prohibited.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Major cultural institutions have silenced themselves in lockstep, canceling productions that deal with the conflict and de-platforming figures who might be critical of Israel’s actions — or who are simply Palestinian themselves,” a group of artists, writers and scholars in Germany wrote in an open letter. “Such voluntary self-censorship has produced a climate of fear, anger, and silence. All this is done under the banner of protecting Jews and supporting the state of Israel.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/germany-antisemitism-israel-gaza-arts-censorship/

Are you afraid of offending Israel, or . . . what?
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 08:44 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
People will speak up, either in favor of, or against, those war crimes.

Don't change the subject. I still don't see that the Arabic language has been proscribed.
Quote:
Are you afraid of offending Israel, or . . . what?

I thought you were discussing Germany.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 09:03 am
@hightor,
Quote:
I still don't see that the Arabic language has been proscribed.

Oh I'm not talking about Arabic language. I'm talking about people who are penalized for supporting Palestine in an open manner. Are you denying that?
Quote:
I thought you were discussing Germany.

Well, that's just another way for you to avoid answering the question of whether or not you view Israel's current war crimes against innocent women and children as the crimes against humanity that they are.

If you're not afraid of offending Israel, what other possible reason could you have for denying the reality of their war crimes?
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

The eastern German state of Saxony-Anhalt announced this month that a written commitment to Israel’s right to exist would become a requirement for naturalization. At the national level, Germany’s three governing coalition parties want to stipulate that “antisemitic attitudes or actions” should rule out naturalization, while the largest parliamentary opposition group has called for the effective deportation of non-German nationals convicted of a crime with “antisemitic” motives.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

Gee, does that mean that mentioning Israel's crimes against humanity will be interpreted as anti semitism?

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 09:43 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Does Germany prohibit anti semitic language?
This seemingly simple question probably requires a somewhat longer answer.

The word “Semitic” was first used by the German historian August Ludwig von Schlözer in 1781 to bind together languages of Middle Eastern origin that have some linguistic similarities. The speakers of those languages, however, do not otherwise have shared heritage or history.

After Jews were granted equal rights in the German Empire in 1879, German journalist Wilhelm Marr and like-minded antisemites used the term to present themselves in a positive light and to give the anti-Jewish movements of the time a programmatic, ideological and “scientific” veneer. The term is misleading, as it refers to the Semitic family of languages, which includes both Hebrew and Arabic, among others, although the term “antisemitism” was intended to refer to all forms of hostility towards Jews. Despite these inaccuracies, the term remains firmly established in the language.

Many Yiddish words have become part of everyday German language - after all, Jewish culture and language have been present in Germany for 1700 years. Nowadays, however - and in the case of some words for decades or even centuries - their meaning often has a negative connotation.

Do you refer to such as antisemitic language?
No, that's not prohibited at all but part of colloquial (regional) German and various dialects, like e.g. Low German.


Section 130 (Incitement of masses) of the German Criminal Code deals with the prosecution and penalty of antisemitism, too.
The principles of sentencing are dealt with in Section 46
Quote:
Section 46
General principles

(1) {...]

(2) When fixing the penalty the court weighs the circumstances which speak in favour of and those which speak against the offender. The following, in particular, may be taken into consideration:

the offender’s motives and objectives, in particular including racist, xenophobic, antisemitic or other motives evidencing contempt for humanity,

[... ... ...]

(3) [...]


0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 09:51 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Gee, does that mean that mentioning Israel's crimes against humanity will be interpreted as anti semitism?
No.

But you have sometimes very funny ideas, I admit. (No offense, not everyone can understand law and legal texts and follow the legal logic.)
hightor
 
  4  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 10:14 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
I'm talking about people who are penalized for supporting Palestine in an open manner.

You first asked if Germany "prohibited anti semitic language" and now you've switched to people being penalized for "supporting Palestine in an open manner". Which is it?

Quote:
If you're not afraid of offending Israel...

How could I "offend" Israel? How does one offend a nation-state? Do you think the nation-state of Israel reads the discussions we have here and reacts unfavorably to negative criticism, as if countries were people? Very strange.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 10:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Glennn wrote:
Gee, does that mean that mentioning Israel's crimes against humanity will be interpreted as anti semitism?
No.


Although crackpot anti vax conspiracy theories lifted from the Protocols of Zion will be.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 10:54 am
@hightor,
Quote: If you're not afraid of offending Israel, what other possible reason could you have for denying the reality of their war crimes?

Answer: How could I "offend" Israel? How does one offend a nation-state? Do you think the nation-state of Israel reads the discussions we have here and reacts unfavorably to negative criticism, as if countries were people? Very strange.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

I assume that something is preventing you from calling Israel's war crimes war crimes. If it's not because you're afraid to do so, then what else on earth could it be? I'd just like to hear your reason for not accepting the reality of the war crimes being inflicted on the human beings of Gaza, as well as Gaza itself.
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 10:59 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Although crackpot anti vax conspiracy theories lifted from the Protocols of Zion will be.

You don't know better than to make reference to an experimental injection that failed you? Good . . .
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 11:09 am
@Glennn,
I know better than you.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jan, 2024 11:48 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
experimental injection
I'm sure, izzy like anyone else got injections with a vaccine dose.
You can call such procedure "experimental", but in practise it's done since about 220 years.
Earlier, the first documented intravenous injections were carried out in 1663.
 

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