Hell no. Mo won't go.

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My question is about when it is necessary/advisable to make a kid do something that they don't want to do.

Here's the set-up:

Mo is four. He lives with me and Mr. B and has lived here for two and a half years. His bio-family keeps random and inconsistent contact with him. His Aunt T is one of the more reliable visitors but even her contact is rare: she calls and speaks to him on the phone every few weeks and visits every six weeks or so (she lives about two miles from us).

She made a "date" with Mo for yesterday after not having seen him in a couple of months. Mo was excited about her visit. She planned to take him to a nearby pick-your-own produce farm - something Mo would enjoy.

When she got here he did not want to go with her. He cried and pleaded to just stay home.

Aunt T said it was okay that he didn't want to go but I could tell that her feelings were hurt. I suggested that she just hang out here for the afternoon. She did and they had a great time and Mo was sad to see her go when she left.

Later, Mr. B and I discussed the necessity of making kids "go" when they don't want to go. He feels that it is sometimes necessary for kids to do things they don't want to do.

And I agree.

But not on this.

My position is that maintaining a relationship with a kid demands a commitment and Aunt T's visits of convienience don't amount to the kind of commitment required. She's welcome to see Mo any time she wants but that we need to follow Mo's lead on "going".

It is important that I not alienate his bio-family and Mr. B is concerned that they might begin to think that I'm "brain-washing" him against them. He knows this is not true but he worries about how it looks from their perspective.

Mr. B has a lot more experience than I do on inconsistent families since he grew up with a few randoms himself.

Next weekend another inconsistent visitor has planned a field trip with Mo and I'm worried about the situation playing out this way again.

I'm thinking parents who have dealt with divorce and visitation schedules might have some insight into such situations and I would love some help from them or from anyone else who has any ideas.

Thank you!

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Hi boomer, I've been thinking about you guys, haven't seen you around much lately.

First, can I ask some (probably) off-topic stuff? Has it been a year for his biodad? Can the termination/ adoption stuff take off soon?

Next, while I agree with Mr. B that not alienating the bio-family is important, I think it is important in terms of what is best for Mo. And I think this inconsistent family stuff is quite... dangerous is the only word I'm coming up with, though it's not quite right. I think valuing Mo's feelings about this is very, very important. I think forcing him to go could be very, very damaging... or at the very least, counterproductive.

It sounds like you handled it really well, in finding a compromise that was respectful of Mo and yet also welcoming of Aunt T.

It's one thing to be a pushover, it's something else entirely to be empathetic, creative, and caring in your responses, and I think this situation is in the latter category.

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The sun finally came out so I've been outside instead of at the computer for the last week or so. Summer has been late coming to Oregon so I'm enjoying it while I can.

Plus, I'm still having problems with my computer. AND for some reason we lose our internet connection every day at 5:00 and I can't seem to get motivated to call and find out why.

But.... YES! Our one year anniversary of psycholocial parent status is July 8. The one year anniversay of hearing from Mo's dad is August 20 so we are inching our way towards the date we can start adoption proceedings. Our attorney advised us to wait a "bit" after those anniversarys to get things started though....

Counterproductive is what I feel about forcing him to "go". I guess I would rather hurt someone's feelings other than Mo's in such cases.

He can't really express his "reasons" for not wanting to go - offering tears and protests instead.

He wanted her to come over, he wanted to play with her, he just didn't want to get in the car and go anywhere with her.

Strange.

I'm glad Aunt T was cool about the situation but I fear that Grandma P might not be quite so cool next weekend if Mo has a repeat preformance.

I'm searching for my dominion.

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Doesn't really seem that strange, boomer.
Seems like a rather sensible reaction by a kid who needs/wants to stay close to his home.

Maybe you could let Grandma P know in advance that Mo may not be up to a trip away? Do you give Mo's doc a log of his ups/downs re visitors/visitation? Might be good to keep it 'officially' logged. Whether or not the doc does anything about it - registering your awareness and concern may be helpful in the long run. A2K's a good diary - maybe print some of the posts where you've documented some of the major events - give 'em to the doc?

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Just one comment the best way to damage a relationship is to force a child to do something he does not want to do. Particularly something as unnecessary as that field trip.

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I agree that Mo should not be forced in such an instance. I think inviting Aint Bee to stay and visit was the best move to make.

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Me too.

And document......

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Yes, absolutely, I have documented all family contact and his responses to it. His doctor has it on file and referred Mo to counseling.

The counselor suggested we wait a while though because of Mo's age and what our insurance would cover. He worried about further injecting and removing people from Mo's sphere (meaning himself) since come-and-go people seem to be at the root of Mo's problems.

Our attorney also has detailed records of family visits so this stuff is well documented.

The older Mo gets the worse his reaction to "going" is.

I agree AU -- and the fact that Mo has fragile relationships with so many people complicates things a lot.

But there will come a day when he will be forced to go to school and such things. He is forced to go to the doctor and the dentist now even when he protests and cries.

In the future, there is always the possibility of court-ordered visitations.

Inviting Aunt T to stay was really the only solution that presented itself that would spare everyone and I'm very glad to see that you all think it was a good compromise.

This compromise won't present itself with the upcoming visit. Grandma P has been warned that Mo may resist.

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Quote:

The older Mo gets the worse his reaction to "going" is.

This is a worrying situation. It will be solved naturally before Mo graduates from high school. Since kindergarten will start in about 14 months, starting to take steps makes sense.

Do you ever leave Mo with a babysitter? How does he react to being on his turf without you?

Does he go places with people who aren't from his birth family?

The compromise of "let's all play at Mo's house" is a good one for the time being, but it can't go on forever. At the same time you are right not to force Mo to go with people for whom he has profound distrust. Aside from the immediate insult to his psyche and common sense you are announcing to him that he should disregard his instincts.

This leads to child molesters, unfriendly neighborhood gangs, flim-flam artists and designing women.

Believe me, I remember that every Afternoon Out for a child meant a piece of private time for me. Down the road, this will happen.

Would it be possible for you to go with Mo and Aunt T? Or Mo and the Grandparents for any trip by car?

Is there a worthy destination within walking distance? Even walking to the corner with someone who is Not You would be a start. First to the corner, then around the block....

Avoid routes where he'd have to cross streets to get back to the safety of home.

A gradual approach would allow Mo to get used to the idea. Going on foot puts him in charge--he's smart enough to know that in a car, he's helpless.

Before the visit with his mother in which she discussed moving to California was he willing to go on excursions without you?

Can you ring in Dora the Explorer as a role model?

Exasperating, isn't it, that this is a kid who gives you the heebie-jeebies by disappearing on an irregular basis?

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I agree in most cases, you may have to force a child to do something he does not want to do. For example, if my daughter had the choice she might never go to school. However, this is an entirely different situation and seeing Mo is only 4 it may be difficult for him to understand about commitments especially where others have not be committed to him. I think when he gets older, he would be in a better position to explain even though a certain relative is not consistent with him and breaks dates, that it is important for him to stand by his word. At 4 it is just a bit too young for him to understand this.

I agree with soz, I think you handled this in about the best way you could.

In situations where a child does not want to attend something - a big thing comes to mind to me is a birthday party. I am sure almost everyone has experienced being invited to a party of a very unpopular child. I do like the child to have the choice in this, however, as a parent you can guide them in making this choice. My daughter did not want to attend a party of one child, so I convinced her by letting her know that many of her friends are attending. Or explaining how the child my feel if they did not attend. She did make the choice on her own, but with me guiding her and explaining why she should attend.

In those need to force situations like school, doctors and dentists - I would simply explain the reasons why. I also explain and walk through with them exactly what to expect. Before going to the doctor, I show my daughters what the doctor will do or what the dentist will do. Before starting school, I had my daughter take a tour of the school. They may still not want to go, but it makes it a little easier if they know what to expect and that you are not just being mean making them go some where they do not to go.

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Re: Hell no. Mo won't go.

boomerang wrote:

And I agree.

But not on this.

That about sums it up, boomer. I think that when it comes time to go to school, the doctor, dentist, or even a babysitter, you should make him go because that is your decision and not his. But the bio family, that should be his decision unless you see a good enough reason to override it.

The aunt sounds like she at least tries to be somewhat consistent. Even she seemed to understand that forcing him to go with her when he didn't want to was not what was best for him. You did the right thing encouraging her to stay. She may well turn into a needed ally later.

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Exasperating is right!

I WAS looking forward to a few hours off just to lounge around doing nothing. Then I found myself not only lounging but having a guest as well.

The only other person he really ever gets in a car to go anywhere with is our neighborhood "grandpa" and that isn't very often.

Mo goes on foot around the neighborhood with the other kids to play in their yards or street tennis or whatever games.

He does occasionally stay with a sitter.

He likes to have his bio-family come here and play but he just doesn't want to go in the car with them. The kind of crying he did on Sunday was not the temper tantrum kind of crying - the "I don't wanna...." crying. It was the sadness kind of crying. The quiet, heartbreaking, "please..." kind of crying.

And I do worry about sending a weird and potentially harmful message about getting in cars with people he doesn't want to get into cars with.

The "California" car ride is what seemed to set it all off.....

Unless you're a walker there really aren't many places to walk to around here. Mo and I walk all over, for longer trips he bikes and I walk. Most people don't walk anywhere - his bio-family is among the most people category.

Mo is such a creature of habit. I really think that if his family made more of an effort to be consistent that this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But I can't force them to be consistent.

I might try prepping him a bit for the upcoming field trip by "Dora mapping" the excursion: first you go to the zoo, then you ride the train, then you come home.

He's usually not all that balky when it comes to going places as long as I'm going with him. Nobody wants to go to the doctor so I expect a bit of protesting on those occasions. He resigns himself to it.

He does not resign himself to "going" with his bio-family.

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That's a good distinction - what is my decision to make and what is his decision to make.

I have no quarrel with Aunt T - she has by far been the most consistent person from his bio-family. The last few times she's picked him up he went willingly and later started with the "I want to go home"s. This is the first time he's just not wanted to go.

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I should add that the decisions have to be made by those who can choose what's best for Mo. The doctors, school, etc, are your decision because you can choose what's needed whether or not it's what he wants. His bio family has shown they cannot choose what's best for Mo with regard to visitation and so it should be his choice, with you as backup, whether or not he goes with them. Further, it would serve no purpose for him to go with them if he doesn't want to. He wouldn't have fun, he wouldn't bond, he wouldn't learn anything except that he has no control.

You are probably right about what started this, and if so, allowing him to have some say about whether he goes or not should help him to come around sooner than later.

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Is pick-your-own still in season?

Can you come home (assuming you can get away) with a basket full of berries and great excitement for the wonderful time you had?

You might also develop a saga What Would We Do If Mo Up & Vanished

Think big. You'd call the police. His uncle would show up with a gang of rescue savvy military personel. Every single dog in the neighborhood would be sniffing socks and tracking Mo. Grocery clerks would look behind the potato chips in the supermarket. The Lifeguards at the pool would check the pool and the showers and the lost and found box.....

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I'm getting a very hinky feeling about this weekend.

I'm going to record this feeling here so that it exists in a dated format somewhere outside my head.

Yesterday my old office phone line rang a couple of times. I keep this line active for only one reason - it's the line that Mo's dad always called on because it was available from directory assistance and my home number is not. No message was left.

This morning Mo's mom called. She ran into Mo's dad's sister yesterday morning. Mom wanted to schedule plans with Mo this weekend.

Immediately after this call, Grandma P called simply asking if "we were still on for Saturday", and hurried off the phone - very unlike her. She usually chats for a long time.

Perhaps it is that the one year anniversay is this Friday and I'm getting paranoid.

I'm going to enlist my neighbor for jotting down tag numbers of visiting cars.

Anyway.

Now it's down with a date that can't be altered.

Not that the date might make any difference.....

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Ooh.

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Double ooh.

Listen to your instincts. And Mo's.

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Yeah yeah. I think I'll take Saturday off from work so that I'm here when the pick ups and drop offs take place.

I warned both Grandma P and Mom that Mo has been resistent to "going".

And I'm trying not to let my paranoia rub off on him because right now he seems excited about both visits. I've been very clear that both visits will involve "going" and he seems cool about it.

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It might be time to teach Mo his phone number, just in case. Or would that convey your discomfort to him?

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Hell no. Mo won't go.

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